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Kalle 's and Lappi's decision only add to the overall pity state of the WRC. How else can you describe when fighting for the title isn't worth the effort even for the works drivers. That's not how it used to be. When drivers are not motivated, how can be the manufacturers, the sponsors, the fans? WRC, as it is, is an old man whose life became nothing but counting days. If WRC doesn't find a way to sell itself to the current world, it's done.
And no, I don't know the way either.
Wonder what fia and wrc promoter will do to prevent Rally2 on podium
Easy answer. Nothing.Quote:
Originally Posted by NoBudgetWRT
Not much competition for the current Rally1 drivers.
When was the last time one of them lost their drive?
Must be boring for them as well with so few competitors in class.
Neuville hasn't lost his drive even once since he entered the WRC top category in 2012.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sulland
Tänak has lost twice, once after 2012 and then in 2016 when he was demoted to WRC2.
Evans lost it same time as Tänak after 2015.
Katsuta since entering the championship fully in 2020, hasn't been demoted once.
Neuville was out of a drive after 2012. Citroen only offered him a limited program and it took Al Attiyah paying a full program for him in a 4th Fiesta to save his career.
yes but he did compete because of that in 2013 and even if he would've continued in Citroen part time it's still not like the other examples of Evans & Ott.Quote:
Originally Posted by macebig
Well, I find the situation utterly baffling. I think it reflects badly on Kalle, though I admire him in a way for choosing to walk away rather than just complain or be miserable, but more so the WRC, though luckily (?!) the WRC feels like it has fallen so far off the radar again that only the likes of us here will notice how bad it looks that the WRC's champion can't be bothered to take part...
Two aspects I don't particularly understand is why Kalle isn't trying to protect his own reputation, such as by blaming the state of the WRC (doesn't want to burn bridges?), and hasn't mentioned military service at all, from which I can only presume he isn't going to do it? I'm pro the idea of taking a sabbatical from employment in general, though I wouldn't consider the life of a young rally champion to be comparable to the misery some people experience in the daily grind of employment.
I could buy into the idea that half the rallies nowadays carry little kudos or value, with cookie cutter, generic short events, so aren't worth doing, but it seems that Kalle is one of the advocates for cutting down events even further... I'm not sure what the motivation would be to take part in further diminished 'events'.
Remember how after the Breen's accident, there were inteviews with wrc drivers who paid respect to him and his passion about the sport...and some of them seemed to realise they should be grateful for this opportunity they have and complain less about everything... well this spirit has not lived long with them.
i think there's a lot of reflection missing half of the news.
rovampera signed a multi-year deal, with part-time 2024, but at least full 2025 and probably more.
i find a lot of the comments way too focused on his 2024. he never said i'm done 'cause wrc it's boring/useless. he said he needed some break but also wants to be fully focused for 2025 on...
2024 The half World Championship. JOKE. FIA should be ashamed of that.
We need to have at least two thoughts in mind at the same time here, folks.
Kalle is one. Championship another.
For championship is terrible.
It is a bit sad we will likely have only Evans/Katsuta, Neuville/Tanak and what, Fourmaux/Munster? Doing a full season next year. The reality of that is 3 guys really competing for the series.
The individual rallies should be mostly ok with the part time guys, but I do agree it’s not a great look for the series.
I think it's not so much about Kalle, he made his personal decision and I think for him it has more to do as he said with taking some personal time. I think he worked a lot behind the scenes and wants to take some pressure off. I remember during the pandemic when everyone was streaming sim racing I caught a couple streams of him practicing RBR. Sometimes he was alone but sometimes he had Jonne on the notes and they were doing it like a serious practice, not goofing around etc. That's the level of his dedication. He probably wants to have some fun, he's 23, when I was 23... well better that I not say :P
As for the championship I think there is A LOT of frustration about the current situation from everyone (fans, crews, teams etc) and this latest rally with the retirements and lack of interesting things and Kalle's announcement was a catalyst for everyone to say that opinion. I think everyone is right in some way but I don't see a quick solution, other than suddenly finding money to field 4 cars for each manufacturer on most rallies. I think the mistakes are in the past and there is a chain of "fixing the wrong things" and lack of vision. WRC has suffered from this for a long time, going back even since David Richards forced to go to 16 rallies and reduced to 2 car teams, and the cloverleaf format and so on. And since then they tried a few things but they are always a minute late and a dollar short. I think they fundamentally need to look at the "product" of rallying as a whole and how make it watchable and attractive without losing the essence. Right now it's mostly for hardcore fans. And it's not only the length of the rally either, the WEC is doing great when a few years ago it was almost dead. The tickets for the Le Mans race have just been put on sale and they are sold out already since 17th of November 2023 for the 24h race of June 2024!
Quote:
Originally Posted by seb_sh
Sportscar racing has peaks, and troughs, and we accept that's how it is. We're in a great period at the moment. However, even during poor periods, they don't panic, and make drastic changes to be more popular. If those running the WRC ran Sportscar racing, they'd have made all races 2-3 hours, as 6 hours is too long for attention spans.
None of the other major motorsport series continually shoots itself in the foot making stupid 'short term' decisions.....and then wonder why they never work.
But that's not at all true, though is it?Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyRAC
WEC is called Endurance but has events that range from 6 hours to 24 hours.
F1 and MotoGp have all introduced Sprint formats recently.
Formula E is full of gimmicks.
The new Dakar World Championship has a variety of lengths and formats that change from year to year.
Five GR Yaris Rally2s expected to start 2024 Rallye Monte-Carlo, Latvala reveals
https://www.wrc.com/a/news/w26999_Fi...Latvalareveals
Looks like 2024 will be more like pre-Richards than any since. How may drivers and teams were regularly doing 'full' seasons before? Can't blame him for everything.Quote:
Originally Posted by seb_sh
Not for everything but he did a good job digging part of the whole. The decisions at the time were made to make money out of TV rights like F1. An yes there were plenty more drivers and especially stars. In fact that decision led to the WRC losing its brightest star. Even though he was maybe past his top going to 16 rallies reduced seats which meant McRae was out. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot.Quote:
Originally Posted by WRCStan
https://itgetsfasternow.com/2023/11/...for-wrc-event/
Almost agree whit everything he says!
Possible stop sunday cruising is random selection one of the sunday stages to power stage points!
What do the crews not contesting the 'WRC1' championship think of this? And what if then, there are only 8 cars doing a "super sunday"? I think it's inevitable something like this happens, but I don't think it particularly fixes anything.
Qualifying solves nothing but personal gain.
Glad he is saying something though.
Please listen to this man!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Duvel
The only part I don’t 109% agree is the qualifying stage but it wouldn’t hurt to try it for one season and see how it affects things
Maybe if not stage, why not use shakedown?Quote:
Originally Posted by EstWRC
it is mandatory to run it 3 times, but you could do it 5 times if you want.
So first 3 runs is classic shakedown and 4th and 5th runs of shakedown are qualifying. The best of those two is a drivers best qualifying time, an then the fastest driver can choose starting position first.
Just my thoughts...
He's got some interesting ideas; some are good, some I'm not so keen on - but I like some rallies having different formats - Safari/ Monte can/should be longer tests.
What has to be said, is that the current format of events/ calendar aren't working.......
At this moment in time (with 2.5 manufacturers), I'd go for a maximum of 10 events, with a mini break in the summer, like we used to see in the late 90s.
I must say I dont like Jonne's ideas. Maybe it is good for TV, but making from rally one "longer rallysprint" will not help so much. Maybe it should make it better for top factory drivers and maybe it should be better in TV, but it can destroy the spirit of rallysport. When I am a spectator and I am going to watch the rally somewhere abroad, I want to see proper rally and full days of action. With this format it should be event worse than current ERC format and I am not sure I would be interested in spend so much money and time to watch only few stages. And same it can be also for "other" competitors - if you are travelling to the rally and spending huge amount of money, you want to enjoy the sport and not only one and half day of competition...
One more thing - and when there will be one superlong day, do you think that people will spend whole day watching all stages there? I dont think so...
That actually sounds good. I especially like super sunday, leave out the filler and do just 2 runs with aggregate time. For added interest they could be in reverse order for the 2nd run so if for example in the first run some crews have advantage due to road order in the 2nd run the others have advantage so it could end up really close.Quote:
Originally Posted by Duvel
Also the idea to have different character events sounds nice too.
If a team enters the WRC event, they are obligated to enter the super Sunday, that way all competitors have to start.
Some events which run over more days is also good idea!
Thursday sss, the stadium stages are good show for (also not die hard) fans! Other rallys start on Friday (ceremonial on nice place, also good thing). And than run some evening, night stages!
Remote service, yes please, make those spots the beating heart of the rally! More special stages on Saturday so that fans have more options to go and watch the action. Germany back in the day had 5 stage loops, where it was possible to go and see 3 stages..
Mix surface stages should also make a comeback, Fia , and promotor should see this kind of thing adds to the spectacle.
What these cars are able to do, and what alien like skills these drivers have, you can only really see and feel when standing next to a stage! safety is off course big priority, but fans are allowed nothing anymore these days.
The idea's of Jonne are good baseline to star from!
I'd reduce the number of events to ten and make the whole Sunday a power day.Quote:
Originally Posted by PLuto
I definitelly don't agree with qualifying stage. Young guys would clean the road on the first day and struggle, bad idea for me.
I must say I'm really an old school guy - I love the rallies and formats from the past and how longer a rally was I love it the most. Like in the 70ies and 80ies. But socialized with Mc Rae, Burns, Grönholm, Sainz etc. in the late 90ies. So I'm not that old.
If a format change attracts more manufacturers and brings up some new interest to the WRC I can live with that.
But the itinerary should people allow to watch a good amount of stages live. Like it was 2011 or 2013 in Finland. The format was a bit different but we watched a good amount of stages. Because I'm not traveling for four or five stages across Europe.
I really don't get it why they canceled the remote service a few years ago as well. It was a good idea to reduce the liaison distance and keep the cars quite good serviced in the rally area.
It's funny because last week I was playing around with some WRC format changes a little bit different than Halttunen ideas but at least I had shorten the days. But I had randomly the same idea with different formats for different rallies. The fast events like Finland, Sweden, Poland, Latvia or also CER, Croatia or Sardinia could be a short format version. Monte, Acropolis and Portugal used to be marathons in the past as well, so they can use a normal or longer format. The oversee rallys should do also a longer format, because oversee traveling for 2 full days of rallying makes really no sense.
Halttunen ideas are really good. I never thought that I would appreciate a format change but it seems something has to be done in WRC.
One of the the things about rallying, which are hostile to the general public, is the complicated rules, classes etc. Having two different formats of rallies again only complicates already a complicated thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by bearclaw
If the "long" format just starts a day earlier I don't think it would be that bad. F1 has both regular and sprint weekends. If you start to make it more complicated then it can get weird. Another thing that rally lacks that is more important in my opinion is habit formation. Most F1 races are Sunday at a certain time, qualifying is Saturday at a certain time, etc. If rally could do that with at least the Qualifying and the Sunday PS it would be a big win in my opinion. Add a well broadcast live Saturday stage at a fixed time (almost) every rally and you have one of the building blocks of a viewable product.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
I don't know guys this sounds like clutching at straws. Tweaking the itinerary, adding remote services or a qualifying stage isn't changing the format, nor is it going to revolutionise anything.
I think it is not that easy...
Primary, we (or they) should put on table main question - what we really want? More manufacturers? More competitors fighting for title? More cars no matter if connected to manufacturer? More TV audience? And it is important they are watching all stages or should be better to show only few important stages, but in a proper way? More spectators on the events? More races over the world? Lot of questions... ...and are you sure that change of format is the most important thing which will help to manage it?
One of the proposed things are remote services. Do you know why it was cancelled and everything moved to the main services? Because teams wanted to build their castles there, where they can invite their partners and journalists and show how cool they are. If there will be remote services and not so much action in main service, even less people will come there. For the easier format, they have introduced tyre fitting zone. For a long time, it is not tyre fitting zone, but also "light remote service", where also mechanics can work on the cars, only with tools inside the car. What will happen if we will change it to regular service? From organisers point of view, you will need really big place for service area, because everybody will need to have service car next to the bay. Also now it is problem to find proper place for TFZ, for remote service it can be even more difficult. And for the teams? Lot of teams is going to the races with big trucks now, they park them in the service and car stays there for the whole rally. And for transport to TFZ, they are renting some combi car or small van (usually you are taking there only lift, holders and sometimes tyres, when you dont believe Pirelli will bring your tyres). But if there will be normal service, you will need regular small truck to bring there all necessary spare parts. And can you imagine transportation of these small trucks between regular service and remote service?
Qualifying stage - competitors wants to have it as it is more fair for fastest drivers. But current format with first cars on the road was helping to make the championship easier for rivals of Loeb, Ogier or now Rovanperä, because without this "help" lot of other drivers should be more far behind. When this promoter came to ERC, they absolutely dont understand importance and sense of Qualifying stage. Almost whole first year they were ignoring it and only step by step they have found how important it is there (ERC is little bit different story that WRC as there are not only championship regulars, but also fast local heroes or guests). But they never understand importance of choosing starting position, how good thing it can be for promotion and for making the story. And FIA is on same now, so start order selection is cancelled...
I am not sure if changing the format can help. You can see examples like Dakar, Le Mans, Tour de France. I think it can work also with current format. On the other hand, there are series (for example rallycross), where they are always trying to change format, but it is not helping, despite how "cool" it is. Before I was watching cross country skiing a lot, but when they have changed format from interval to mass starts, most of the races started to be boring as almost everything has happened only in last few hundred metres.
And we can continue with another topics. But like I wrote on the beginning of my message, important is to answer the question - what we really want?
Qualifying stage is bad idea and I think Saturdays itineary will not be doable in todays safety standards.Quote:
Originally Posted by Duvel
Otherwise I like his ideas, especially "sprints"
this idea has come up before, makes absolutely zero senseQuote:
Originally Posted by ik1911
We want the sport to become more interesting in order to attract more manufactures.
In Kenya, after sitting around the bonfire with some beers I had an idea for gravel rallies. Sunday should have at least 3 stages. We continue with normal starting order until the powerstage regroup... Then your position on powerstage can be decided on 1.otion: Reverse order of Sunday results (the fastest during Sunday gets the best positions); 2. Option: As all the drivers are in regroup anyway, they can create a show event where they choose start positions like in ERC. Then it adds a lot of tactic.. if there is no service, you have to make sure you still have good enough tires for Sunday. You have to be sure that when you start later there is no rain expected etc. That should pretty much end Sunday cruising and make a lot of fun just before powerstage and during powerstage as well.