2023 WRC News & Rumours

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Originally Posted by Managarium

Well, I think that he fought for podium finish on every event, that was goal. Just he over achieved himself by fighting too much and he crashed :D :monster::grenade:

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The progress before every one of his crashes looks exactly the same.

Mostly decent times (once even rally lead) then he starts pushing a bit harder to keep up or move up (see splits) and crashes.

As I just wrote in MSport thread I can't remember any driver having a worse season and certainly not a driver staying in the car after something like this.

Lefebvre had worse 2017 but he was out of the car after 1/3 of the season, Meeke 2019 is probably closest. So it would be hilarious if Meeke and Breen share a car at Hyundai next year.

Must be tough being MSport management these days.
They had, maybe still has the best car.
The only driver that has been able to get the best out of the car is only part time driver. The number 1 driver is in 7th place, and will end up there. Next Fords are 10,11, 13 and 16th.

For 23 they need to get better drivers, where 2 can fight for podiums in all rallies.
I really hope they get that and will create more exitement in the top. We need that!

Msports reliability has been God awful this season, unless my mind is playing tricks on me. The car is fast but not at all strong. If they got a top driver (Tanak) it would be interesting to see if they could produce a more reliable car, and develop it well throughout the year. Hard to know if they've been scrimping and saving on parts this year due to the drivers not being upto it

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Originally Posted by Eli

It's nice to see that he thinks Ott is needed in M-Sport but between that and not bringing him to the team... as many people said here before, it's not (only) his decision to make, Guess we'll find out Sunday/Monday. Just speculating of course, don't think he'll keep to his words.

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Well, it’s not that simple now for Toyota even if they are not in dire situation so it’s normal they took a bit of time as they are not in a hurry with some options available. In the last month, a top driver has been free and Toyota lost a good point scorer to its main competitor whereas they thought it would be pretty much set.

Probably some political games with different views:
- Finnish side sounds like they don’t want Tanak and I think it’s more about not taking risks about Rovanpera (remember Ogier vs. Loeb 2011 and its consequences for Citroen) more than the PR stuff. And sounds like they would prefer Katsuta still in 4th car as he struggles to achieve big results and to keep same strategy than this year with Mikkelsen or Suninen to substitute Lappi.

- Probably some people in the Japanese side has seen that since mid-season, Hyundai has clearly tied Toyota and Neuville is a championship contender; they may want to hire Tanak as a revenge for 2019 + to secure the championships.

- also in the Japanese management, with Lappi gone, probably some people pushing for Katsuta at least sharing 3rd car with Ogier (and then to be assessed if the best strategy is Katsuta full-season in 3rd and 4th car depending on when Ogier drives or Katsuta only making a part-time season with Ogier in 3rd car to benefit from better road positions)

Already gave my opinion, think the best is Rovanpera - Evans - Ogier/Katsuta - Katsuta/Lindholm with 4 cars.
But it’s not an easy decision.

Heard soms interesting rumours this weekend.

Mikkelsen had already an agreement with Hyundai, but that went sideways due to Lappi suddenly showing up. Now he's back to testing with Skoda, seems they werent happy after Lausitz.

Breen would be back at Hyundai with an parttime deal, suprising if that would be right ..

Fourmaux is looking for an WRC2 drive, seems he's done with MSport Rally1..

To be continued ...

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Rally japan is finished, when can we see the first announcements from the drivers and teams?

Hyundai: Neuville, Lappi, sordo/breen/paddon

Toyota: Rovenpära, Evans, ogier/katsuta

Ford: Tänak, Mikkelsen, Loubet

Maybe optional Mikkelsen shared with ogier if Evans goes to Ford, but i don't think he'll do.

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Sadly I think MSport will be down to few Loeb starts combined with Loubet and Greensmith full season and maybe Solberg half season.

I do hope for Tanak, but something like the above is far more realistic.

Hyundai will announce next week, some rumors mentioning tomorrow already. I guess Toyota week after then and M-sport will be last like always cause they are just taking the leftovers.

My personal prediction:

Toyota

Rovanperä
Tänak
Ogier/Katsuta

Hyundai

Neuville
Lappi
Sordo/Suninen/Breen

M-sport

Evans
Loubet
Greeensmith
Loeb/Solberg

I can understand why Hyundai would hire Lappi, hiring Breen after this season provided he gets kicked by MSport is quite hard to understand.

Mikkelsen or Suninen can cover same rallies, arguably with same amount of risk and very good recent results. While Breen has not gotten out of crashing in 7 rallies and now has a new co-driver on top.

Trying to think out of the box they might be interested in comparisons with Puma, but from technical perspective Louriaux had seen everything on Puma before he went to Hyundai.

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Originally Posted by mknight

I can understand why Hyundai would hire Lappi, hiring Breen after this season provided he gets kicked by MSport is quite hard to understand.

Mikkelsen or Suninen can cover same rallies, arguably with same amount of risk and very good recent results. While Breen has not gotten out of crashing in 7 rallies and now has a new co-driver on top.

Trying to think out of the box they might be interested in comparisons with Puma, but from technical perspective Louriaux had seen everything on Puma before he went to Hyundai.

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Whoever they take between Breen, Mikkelsen and Suninen will be a risk with all of these choices having their pros and cons for almost the same profile of driver (and no other option making real sense on the contrary such as Paddon, Ostberg and Meeke who were a bit too far of the game for too long for different reasons; for Paddon would need at least one year in Rally2 to prove what he can do again). Honestly, I don’t see a no-brainer choice between these 3 (even if I had to pick, I would take Mikkelsen):

- Breen: well, his season is awful but he still makes two podiums and has driven in Rally1 which is a big advantage compared with the two others (can be an advantage especially because there is less adaptation period); and he would come back in the profile where he was the most efficient: part-time with road position advantage. But yeah, it’s a bet as he is in bad dynamic.

- Mikkelsen: probably the one who did the best season so the best dynamic; but he has not driven in RC1 rally for 3 years and never in Rally1: is he able to adapt this type of car as we saw it’s not that simple? And is his style the most efficient for a part-time driver?

- Suninen: well, he is in the team but I’m not that enthusiastic about his RC2 season: yes, he won in Finland (sport-wise) and Spain but he made a huge mistake in Portugal and was dominated in terms of «*«*normal rhythm*» by Lindholm in Greece and Japan and by Mikkelsen in Estonia (difficult to assess Sardinia with early technical issues). And he was not very good in his time with M-Sport; only reason which would justify this choice would be betting on his potential (but why not bet on Solberg in that case) and to reward his excellent job in the development of the Rally2 Hyundai.

I've heard that maybe Formaux will join toyota.

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Originally Posted by spyros

I've heard that maybe Formaux will join toyota.

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As what?

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Originally Posted by WRCStan

As what?

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Weather man? :) They needed one in Japan.

One random thought: Tänak has not decided anything and waited the end of season - maybe because to have freedom to test out both - Toyota and Ford and THEN decide. Suitable car is probably more important thing than salary, so I think all this "M-Sport can not afford Tänak" is not really a keyword here.

Second one - seems that Evans - Martin duo have had at least co-driver mistakes this year - once got penalty and this time in Japan delayed note caused puncture and falling of from the fight. I wonder how strong is the relationship there.

At least Evans showed some speed and fighting spirit which we didn't see too much this season.

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Originally Posted by WRCStan

As what?

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doctor?

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Originally Posted by AnttiL

doctor?

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I thought he was studying pharmacy.

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Originally Posted by meh

One random thought: Tänak has not decided anything and waited the end of season - maybe because to have freedom to test out both - Toyota and Ford and THEN decide. Suitable car is probably more important thing than salary, so I think all this "M-Sport can not afford Tänak" is not really a keyword here.

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I remember also Ogier did the same time before deciding for Msport exiting from VW

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Originally Posted by meh

One random thought: Tänak has not decided anything and waited the end of season - maybe because to have freedom to test out both - Toyota and Ford and THEN decide. Suitable car is probably more important thing than salary, so I think all this "M-Sport can not afford Tänak" is not really a keyword here.

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Is there anything to test? I mean we know Toyota is the best package at the moment so if he can choose either one I think Toyota would be a no-brainer.

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Originally Posted by flat_right

Is there anything to test? I mean we know Toyota is the best package at the moment so if he can choose either one I think Toyota would be a no-brainer.

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Evans seems pretty unhappy with the Toyota and Loeb is leading a rally every time he drives the Puma while he barely managed two podiums from many starts in i20.

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Originally Posted by mknight

Evans seems pretty unhappy with the Toyota and Loeb is leading a rally every time he drives the Puma while he barely managed two podiums from many starts in i20.

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Unhappy with Yaris? :D :D

This season's best car by far and taking WDC + Manus title..

Only problem is himself not being able to manage the pressure of young fin beating him here and there..(after messing everything up in Monza).

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Originally Posted by flat_right

Is there anything to test? I mean we know Toyota is the best package at the moment so if he can choose either one I think Toyota would be a no-brainer.

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This seems like that... but... do we actually KNOW it? I think we don't have valid comparison. It can be that Loeb is just the master who can drive with everything... but was not able to drive with Hyundai actually. The same pattern is with Loubet. The question or worry here is, how reliable the Puma is.

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Originally Posted by meh

This seems like that... but... do we actually KNOW it? I think we don't have valid comparison. It can be that Loeb is just the master who can drive with everything... but was not able to drive with Hyundai actually. The same pattern is with Loubet. The question or worry here is, how reliable the Puma is.

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It's not only the car, it is the whole package. Can M-Sport develop the car, can they arrange PETs etc? No one is questioning that the car isn't good, but if you look at the bigger picture, it should be clear that Toyota is a place to be.

We all know, that Toyota is the best place to be.
Also we know that this is the only team with fully filled lineup. Loosing one part time driver does not put any pressure to them to find replacement for him. They have Taka San for that.

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Originally Posted by becher

I thought he was studying pharmacy.

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He finished 4 of 9 years of medicine study.

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Originally Posted by spyros

I've heard that maybe Formaux will join toyota.

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Originally Posted by WRCStan

As what?

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With Lappi out, Toyota will clearly need a driver to lead the final part of the development of the Rally2 car.
Hanninen can lead the first part but they need a more up-to-date driver to make this final stages of development if they want to compete against such a big competition quite quickly (Skoda for sure, Hyundai is good now, Citroen also, VW is still an interesting car).
Evans has participated in developing R5 Fiesta but a full-season driver can not develop a car IMO and same for Ogier for a different reason (they can make one or two run but not full sessions).
All the last Rally2 developed has proved you need some time to optimize it and overall, to have a lead driver with a certain knowledge to optimize it.

Fourmaux has developed the Fiesta Rally1 but as not that much experience in Rally2, I would select Suninen, Mikkelsen, Ostberg or Lindholm over him personnally. But maybe someone still believes in his potential and want to keep it close in his field.

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Originally Posted by bandit12

We all know, that Toyota is the best place to be.
Also we know that this is the only team with fully filled lineup. Loosing one part time driver does not put any pressure to them to find replacement for him. They have Taka San for that.

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Lappi left them already once when they were best (2018) for Citroen and now if rumors are true he is doing that again (though maybe not on own will).

The rumour was for Loubet not Formaux to join Toyota.

No late-night tweets from Tanak :(

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Originally Posted by spyros

The rumour was for Loubet not Formaux to join Toyota.

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That actually makes some sense and would also mean MSport loses the seemingly only driver with potential they have.

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Originally Posted by spyros

The rumour was for Loubet not Formaux to join Toyota.

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And use the same co-driver with Ogier :D

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Originally Posted by AnttiL

And use the same co-driver with Ogier :D

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Yes. Same car and same co driver.

Well, I’m skeptical about Loubet’s potential, he is for a while in WRC so he knows the round (which is a big advantage compared with drivers around the same age) and except for 1 or 2 rallies with road position advantage, he was not way better than Solberg this year (and last year, he was very bad in Hyundai even a bit outdated, compared other guys in the same outdated car such as Solans).
And he never developed a car so I’m a bit doubtful he can lead Toyota’s effort to develop the rally2 car (even if he was a rather good Rally2 driver so he is a bit the market target 3 years ago).

That being said, if Toyota is going to plan Rovanpera-Evans in the first 2 cars, Katsuta full-time between 3rd and 4th car and Ogier part-time in 3rd, it would let an half-season not used in 4th car; if Loubet brings some budget as he did in the last 3 years, indeed, Toyota could have an interest to try it after all (except if you take Tanak but that’s a different matter, there is no no-brainer choice).

To ressurect some discussion.

A week ago it was rumored Lappi had to leave Toyota (due to either Tanak coming or Katsuta being nominated). Now with rumors about Loubet and Latvalas recent comments on (potential) new driver it seem maybe he left on his own.

If Lappi left on his own was it a good move from him?

a) OMG leaving fastest/best car (manu Champ) for second time (first time 2018) for a "twitchy" car. Almost cost him his career last time.

or

b) in Toyota there was no clear way to full season. When he tried to push for wins in his starts he failed (Sardinia and before that Croatia, in Finland he almost did a Meeke which would definitely shut the door) so he had to dial back to "steady" (Ypres). Maybe he thinks that with limited number of starts it is harder to push for wins (and towards full season) with less time in car.

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/toyot...ing-next-week/

According to them, this week it’s Hyundai, next week is Toyota.

Like I predicted. Toyota announcing next week https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/toyot...ing-next-week/

E: Eli was faster

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Originally Posted by mknight

To ressurect some discussion.

A week ago it was rumored Lappi had to leave Toyota (due to either Tanak coming or Katsuta being nominated). Now with rumors about Loubet and Latvalas recent comments on (potential) new driver it seem maybe he left on his own.

If Lappi left on his own was it a good move from him?

a) OMG leaving fastest/best car (manu Champ) for second time (first time 2018) for a "twitchy" car. Almost cost him his career last time.

or

b) in Toyota there was no clear way to full season. When he tried to push for wins in his starts he failed (Sardinia and before that Croatia, in Finland he almost did a Meeke which would definitely shut the door) so he had to dial back to "steady" (Ypres). Maybe he thinks that with limited number of starts it is harder to push for wins (and towards full season) with less time in car.

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He found himself in the same situation as 2018, he is the third(fourth) man in the team, at Citroen he was supposed to be no.1 at Hyundai he will likely be the no.2, which is an improvement over his Toyota position.

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Originally Posted by becher

He found himself in the same situation as 2018, he is the third(fourth) man in the team, at Citroen he was supposed to be no.1 at Hyundai he will likely be the no.2, which is an improvement over his Toyota position.

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Hopefully this time the history will not repeat. Must be a 2-year contract just like with Citroën, but they stopped after the 1st year.

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Originally Posted by becher

He found himself in the same situation as 2018, he is the third(fourth) man in the team, at Citroen he was supposed to be no.1 at Hyundai he will likely be the no.2, which is an improvement over his Toyota position.

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He was "no.1" at MSport, which meant running 6-7th on rallies.

Being "Lord of the flies" might be nice, but won't make you win rallies.

By putting together info bits, It does not seem realistic - Tanak to Toyota, unless they make a move with Evans or Evans him self makes the move. My bet would go to Tanak and Loeb shares 1 Puma, i.e., Tanak takes 2023 as regrouping year, waits out on all the development glitches on R1 cars and comes back in 2024 - when situation should be more clear with manufacturers, including that it is very doubtfull that MSport could continue in this low-budget style long term - makes no business sense (in the light of Fiesta news).

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Originally Posted by mknight

He was "no.1" at MSport, which meant running 6-7th on rallies.

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With a car not capable of anything anymore and close to no testing