i really wonder why some of you arent working in the series as team bosses or smth like that
especially mknight, he has all the answers all the time
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i really wonder why some of you arent working in the series as team bosses or smth like that
especially mknight, he has all the answers all the time
You totally misunderstand this.Quote:
Originally Posted by macebig
I want MSport to be competetive, but right now they are just not present in the championship.
Sure technically they drive the rallies, but that's it. 0 podiums. Zero times any of their drivers had speed to beat any of the 6 other manu drivers. Lately they usually don't even beat Katsuta, so they "fight" with Loubet for 8-9th and move up with retirements.
Yes COVID hurt them a lot and it wasn't their fault.
So we get great announcements with Ford leadership present on how they are going to aim for top results in 2022....
and then their lineup starts shaping up as Breen, Fourmaux, Greensmith :(
And? They don't have a God given right to sign Tanak or Neuville. Those 2 were the only available top level drivers. Breen,Fourmaux and Greensmith are a fine enough combination for RMC. During the year, they may add another driver if it makes sense.
There are/were multiple other top rally drivers available, lots of them likely for free/low wage.
(Top driver in the sense of previous winner (Lappi, Mikkelsen, Sordo, Paddon, Meeke, Loeb) or at least a podium finisher (Suninen)).
Every single one of these is better than Greensmith for any rally and most are better than Fourmaux even for Monte. If you go for lineup like that in Monte you already gave up manu title.
Which brings out the suspicion that the talk about aiming for top drivers and results in 2022 was just PR BS. Don't see why any fan should applaud to being fed PR BS.
Meeke, Sordo have zero upside. Loeb isn't available for RMC. Lappi was only looking for a Toyota return.Paddon has to move out of NZ to get any chance of a regular program (and he is working with local Hyundai anyway...) And Suninen decided to shoot himself on the foot, when he had clear orders to bring the cars home and wrecked them.
Loeb, Meeke and Sordo would do a much better job than Greensmith, that's the point. All three bring a lot of interest and publicity too, and on specific rallies could still challenge for some podiums and win stages to show the pace of the car. That's despite the fact they are all over the hill and past their best. If Solberg gets a full seat at Hyundai, Msport (if they didn't want to rinse money out of Greensmith) could just rotate all 3 of those drivers in a car for a season, alongside Breen and Fourmaux with full seasons.Quote:
Originally Posted by macebig
Suninen shot himself in the foot with crashes yes, but clearly he felt no backing or confidence from the team, had little testing, and was driving under huge pressure and yet still I remember that 1st Monte stage more than anything Greensmith has done this year. He crashed, but he was equally criticised when off the pace too.
Then you have Mikkelsen, clearly available, would drive for barely anything to get back into a Rally1 car, and is such a better option for decent results/pace than anything Greensmith has ever shown. Paddon seems to be a what might have been unfortunately....
Any top driver would do better than greensmith. He just doesn't have it. I saw him lift in ypres in a place where no good driver ever lifts, not even the jwrc drivers.
Good for him that he brings a lot of money to keep msport running, but he is never going to be anything but a paydriver.
Mikkelsen is regularly testing a Fiesta and is now using an M Sport contracted co driver. A deal may happen.
Maybe Greensmith does the best job by keeping M-Sport in the WRC through bringing in the much needed funding? Anyway I hope they can afford to pay a top driver next year.Quote:
Originally Posted by er88
As for Loeb, Meeke and Sordo, remember that they are old drivers. Loeb has retired twice, Meeke has been out for two seasons. Sordo and Loeb will not do the fast rallies anymore. Breen, Mikkelsen and Lappi are drivers at the best possible age and will still have lots of years ahead of them.
But strange choice. GB has a great pool of codriver talent at the moment.Quote:
Originally Posted by macebig
without WRC experience..Quote:
Originally Posted by navi
Why a strange choice?Quote:
Originally Posted by navi
So at MSport it can be anything between just Fourmaux/Greensmith or Mikkelsen/Breen/Fourmaux plus Greensmith and a few rallies for Loeb (who could also mentor Fourmaux). That's quite a big range. Seems Breen is in but in my opinion if they want to be serious they need Mikkelsen as well, Mikkelsen/Breen/Fourmaux looks like a team that can fight with Tanak/Neuville/Sordo-Solberg and Evans/Rovanpera/Ogier-Lappi. They won't be favourites but if the car is good they would be a proper team and not like the past two years. I hope they can find the budget for that and that the car is good.
i wouldn't expect to much. unless ford suddenly decides to improve their funding massively, it will be fourmaux, greensmith and some better 3th driver, probably breen.Quote:
Originally Posted by seb_sh
[QUOTE=denkimi;1283485]i wouldn't expect to much. unless ford suddenly decides to improve their funding massively, it will be fourmaux, greensmith and some better 3th driver, probably breen.[/QUOTE
Fourmeaux, Breen and a paying third driver which can be anybody from Greensmith to Mikkelsen to Gryazin. Even Loeb would attract soem sponsorship money I guess ... The last 3 could run only partial programs.
Anybody mentioning seriously Mikkelsen back at Hyunday as 3rd driver ? Sordo seems to have lost his mojo somehow and Solberg is definitely not ready. Adamo is no fool, he knows that, so he might as well put him in a 4th car - they have money to do so.
I also wonder why Ostberg is never mentioned. Sure he will never be world champion, but he has shown at least the same pace as Mikkelsen and is very reliable. Just what you like for a 3rd driver, always there in 4-5th place to pick up the points if your 2 lead drivers fail. Definitely not something you would count on from. a young, up-and-coming driver with a lot to prove...
Østberg would fit as a driver for fast gravel rallies in combination with Sordo. He was never great on tarmac, even though he seems to have improved in R5 I doubt anyone would put him in WRC on tarmac.
Anyway calling him very reliable is quite a stretch. He is reliable when he doesn't drive at full speed. Else there is an issue every two stages, often self induced. (lately in Greece he broke front suspension cause he jumped too much with RWD, before that in Estonia he first broke suspension on a jump and right after service got puncture cause he mowed down a concrete anti-cut).
Only if the car is a lot better than Hyundai and Toyota.Quote:
Originally Posted by seb_sh
It's also good to remember that Mikkelsen and Breen have done few WRC events during the 2-3 last seasons. There's new events and stages where they lack experience.
Breen has never won a WRC rally, Mikkelsen only in VW years, while Tänak, Neuville and Ogier are regular winners with Evans, Rovanperä and Sordo having won multiple times during the 2017 car era (and Lappi also once)
It would be interesting to see Breen as the "number one" driver, doing his first season without having to slow down for anyone, and getting to do the setups to his liking. However, there will also be some mental load, you need to be strong in all events, not just in the ones picked for you like in Hyundai lately. But I hope all the best for him, hopefully he gets a full season and it works out.
Hands up those who thought Evans would be able to fight for driver title at the end of 2019.
I certainly didn't.
Is the Toyota a lot better than Hyundai? Maybe, but definitely not like it was at end of 2018. Then you get Tanaks drop in performance the other way.
Margins seem so small that small differences between cars seem to matter more than small differences between pilots.
For the events, there were almost no new ones the last two years that they didn't do (in WRC or WRC2), and that are going to stay.
Anyway point is that (alphabetically): Breen Fourmaux, Mikkelsen team can have some chance for manus and has two drivers with podium chance on most rallies. Breen, Fourmaux, Greensmith has no chance of manus and one driver with podium chances. That's rather risky if you actually worry about results. (Malcolm might not, Ford might).
Take Citroen at start of 2017 with similar driver lineup. When the one driver runs into issues (for whatever reason) the other "young" drivers aren't there to bring good results. This again increases the pressure on the one driver and so forth...
During 2019-2021 Breen has skipped new stage material from:
- Monte Carlo (well, it changes every year anyway)
- Chile (if it returns)
- Portugal (whole Arganil area loop has been now driven twice for other drivers, also two other new stages this year)
- Sardinia (new stages every year)
- Safari
- Acropolis
- Catalunya (a handful of new tarmac stages since he did the event in 2018)
And Mikkelsen has skipped Portugal and Safari, and will skip Finland with lots of new stages where likely most will remain for 2022.
But yes, Breen-Fourmaux-Greensmith would be exactly like Citroen in 2017. Meeke was also seen as a title contender thanks to good rallies in 2016, but it never realized, and he was also responsible for messing with the car development. Hopefully Breen doesn't end up the same way.
what a motivation speech for Evans, Kalle and Lappi https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/toyot...with-no-ogier/
Let's say the cars are about equal with some advantages and disadvantages in certain conditions. Then if you have Breen-Fourmaux-Greensmith it is almost assured last place for the reasons AnttiL and mknight pointed out. If you replace Greensmith with Mikkelsen you have in theory a much stronger team and you can fight, you will still be the underdog team but you have all the chances you can get with what is on the market at the moment.
I don't count Ostberg as he has enough time in top WRC to show what he can, he's bad on tarmac and when he tries to drive fast issues "appear" way too often to be just bad luck so I think we have a good indication of his level. MSport doesn't need that, they need an Ogier/Tanak/Evans/Neuville (ironically all have gone through MSport), and they couldn't get any of them so for me the next best thing is Mikkelsen because my feeling is he MAY be able to make the step to that level. I think Mikkelsen was growing well at VW and was unlucky when they pulled out and didn't get a team, it was probably a mistake for Citroen to not hire him then.
There's just no way msport is going to end up before hyundai and toyota in the championship. Just forget about that. They don't have the money and they don't have the drivers.
The best they can hope for is winning a rally.
At this point Im just hoping for a RedBull colored Msport with Gryazin, Mikkelsen and Fourmaux (all redbull sponsored already, eh?)
Exactly. It’s not necessarily a case of them choosing a paydriver over someone who may potentially have a higher ceiling (like a Mikkelsen) because they think that will get the best results.Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
It’s a case where if they don’t choose the paydriver, the car won’t be able to run at all.
https://twitter.com/OliverSolberg01/...11448299413505
Oliver Solberg goes to Finland with Craig Drew
https://www.rallit.fi/espanjasta-kan...isen-kannalta/
According to Marca magazine, Oliver Solberg is sharing the third Hyundai with Dani Sordo. Pepe Lopez would also join the WRC2 team.
Some cryptic message from Paddon?
https://twitter.com/HaydenPaddon/sta...03359778426881
"While not there, looking forward to following Rally Finland this week! Always one of my favourite events and famous for the big jumps. Hopefully we will be back there next year Winking face #paddonspack"
A Paddon/Sordo 3rd car sharing with Solberg in a 4th car would work wonders for Hyundai (and anyway way much better than throwing young Solberg under the bus). They say in french "only fools never change their minds". No harm in admitting that binning Paddon a few years back was a mistake (and it wasn't Adamo's).Quote:
Originally Posted by meh
My guess would be that Paddon is going for a some sort of private program, possibly in WRC2. Would be risky to put someone in the main team who has been off the championship for three years.
Hyundai just got a new Rally2 car.
Adamo (with Penasse) picked Breen over Paddon for 2019 Finland.Quote:
Originally Posted by djip
Which in a way was even worse than binning him at end of 2018 by hiring Loeb (not 100% sure whether Nandan or Adamo hired Loeb btw.). At end of 2018 Loeb just won a rally while Paddon had a mediocre season.
By the time of Finland Breen had worse WRC results than Paddon, only drove R5 on a few local rallies with decent but not great results and had no knowledge of Hyundai. Paddon had podium from last start with Hyundai just half a year before. But was outside of Europe completely since that time, which likely doomed him.
Breen was seen by "everyone" as a much more risky choice. Hard to say whether it was good also. Breen did some good times in Finland, but in the end his hiring did nothing for Hyundai manu points. Similarly his start in GB did nothing for the team, except repairs. Same with Sweden. First on his 4th rally with the team in Estonia 2020 he actually contributed.
So, next year Hyundai's WRC2 team will include Solberg, Huttunen, Lopez, Veiby, Suninen and Paddon? :D
Go big or go home?Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
Sadly I think if it comes down to money Huttunen might get the short straw.
I'd guess Solberg will start in Rally1 even if he is not scoring.
Dunno what's the attitude with Veiby since he "hurt" the team quite bad by his actions. But maybe money talks.
Why not. It's easier to compare drivers when they're all in the same car. Now we just need mikkelsen, ostberg, gryazin, bulcacia, rossel, kajetanowicz, ingram and lukyanuk in hyundai rc2.Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
And the best gets ranked gets to be the 3nd Hyundai drivers besides sordo. :p
https://www.rallit.fi/teemu-suninen-...oiko-han-niin/
Adamo has promised more drives for Suninen, likely in Monza
https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/latva...-toyota-drive/
So as previously discussed here, a rotation between Lappi & Ogier for 2022, seems to be only a matter of formality now.
Things shaping up. Lappi in at Toyota and Breen already signed with Msport, which is a 2yr deal I believe.
Question marks over Hyundai's 3rd seat and Msports 3rd seat, alongside Breen and Fourmaux. Gryazin will likely do a few events with the team too, and in the last few months Greensmith has been bigged up by Msport....
And M-sport 4 and 5 seat.
Greensmith and Fourmaux in the payteam, Loeb+Fourmaux, Mikkelsen and Breen in a RedBull ford M-sport team.
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One thing is not really clear for me about Gryazin: he was supposed to switch to Ford Rally2 and explicitly told that he would use a VW in Finland only as it was part of a already signed agreement (which I can understand).
But he will do Spain with VW according to the entry list. So not really sure of how much he is committed with M-Sport (or perhaps he was afraid by the level of the car in Greece)
Driver-type wise Suninen would fit to pair up with Sordo.Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
In a way it would be quite ridiculous if Suninen leaves MSport after being dissatisfied with the car and team effort and takes Breens spot in Hyundai who goes to MSport cause he doesn't get enough chances at Hyundai.
Anyway that's for next year. Short term the question is how satisfied (and fast) Suninen will be with the Hyundai Rally2 car.
In Greece he was laughing how bad the car is with his codriver after most stages.Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny0405
So I only see him being interested in Rally1 drives.
Since Portugal (in WRC) and Liepaja (ERC) he has also been a bit off the pace in Polo as well.