Rally di Roma Capitale 2018

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22nd July 2018, 19:22
RS

Quote:

Originally Posted by focus206

Bah, it's just a rally not deserving to be in ERC (let alone WRC, as someone already suggests). Plenty of better rallies in Italy, or somewhere else in Europe.

The drivers seemed to like the roads.

Timing issues not good enough tho!
22nd July 2018, 19:30
dimviii

impressive that Luky controlled the rally from stage 2 till the end.
Congrats to them.
22nd July 2018, 19:33
Fast Eddie WRC

I read a few comments even from Italian's wondering how this young rally already made it into ERC...
22nd July 2018, 19:41
m-ast

Stewards change yesterday decision on Gago's non prensence and they only quit him 10 points
http://www.rallydiromacapitale.it/do...a_erc_2018.pdf
22nd July 2018, 20:20
itix

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mirek

Why they measure time of passing through three donuts and two chicanes is beyond me.

Anyway do they make roads from ice in Rome? It looks unnaturally slippery.

Maybe some very smooth concrete? I have seen it used in italy before.

A Karting track close to where I used to live was half asfalt and half concrete and the step in between them caught people out all the time (including me once or twice).
22nd July 2018, 21:27
Jarek Z

So Alexey Lukyanuk has shown that the days of dangerous Italian drivers are gone. He was undoubtedly the best driver of the weekend. Congratulations!

But my silent hero is the driver that nobody talks about. Grzegorz Grzyb was driving very consistently throughout the whole rally (all stage times in top 10, most in top 6) and, as a result, he finished 3rd overall! He has a reputation of a fast local driver here, someone who is quick only on the stages he knows by heart. But this season proves that he can be quick also on the unknown ground. Congratulations!

Grzyb's stage times:
https://rally-base.com/crew-profile/...41&ssGroupId=1

The feeling is great, we finished third on the podium. It was big battle with European and Italian drivers, before the rally we didn't expect this. It's like a dream, thanks to everyone, who is with us.

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/854/2...dfed31cf_b.jpg
22nd July 2018, 22:17
Fast Eddie WRC

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jarek Z

So Alexey Lukyanuk has shown that the days of dangerous Italian drivers are gone. He was undoubtedly the best driver of the weekend. Congratulations!

But my silent hero is the driver that nobody talks about. Grzegorz Grzyb was driving very consistently throughout the whole rally (all stage times in top 10, most in top 6) and, as a result, he finished 3rd overall! He has a reputation of a fast local driver here, someone who is quick only on the stages he knows by heart. But this season proves that he can be quick also on the unknown ground. Congratulations!

Grzyb's stage times:
https://rally-base.com/crew-profile/...41&ssGroupId=1

The feeling is great, we finished third on the podium. It was big battle with European and Italian drivers, before the rally we didn't expect this. It's like a dream, thanks to everyone, who is with us.

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/854/2...dfed31cf_b.jpg

Agreed. Good to see Lukyank back into the ERC lead as he is clearly the fastest driver and also beating the locals.

Also re Gryzb who is showing great consistency.

Disappointing for Gryazin after making one mistake which ruined his otherwise great performance.

And I have to praise Ingram for his very promising drive, especially after a long break and his lack of 4WD tarmac experience. Only an unlucky puncture prevented a top result and U28 win.
22nd July 2018, 22:31
Jarek Z

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC

And I have to praise Ingram for his very promising drive, especially after a long break and his lack of 4WD tarmac experience. Only an unlucky puncture prevented a top result and U28 win.

Yes, indeed. Very good performance by Ingram. Plus his first ever (I believe) stage win in the ERC on stage 13 :)
https://rally-base.com/2018/rally-di...30&ssGroupId=1
22nd July 2018, 22:47
RS

Indeed good jobs by Grzyb and Ingram as has been mentioned, also Kreim deserves a mention (he did win U28 after all!)

Nordgren again a bit disappointing. He has more experience of his Fabia R5 than Ingram but I suppose less of driving on tarmac overall. Still it was a sensible drive and I hope we see him on Barum too.

Luky had it all under control, he has really matured this year. I wonder whether he can give Kopecky a run for his money on Barum?
23rd July 2018, 10:39
Fast Eddie WRC

I guess Kreim did well after having stuff stolen the day before the rally.

But his times were often quite slow and he was fortunate not to have any punctures like others.
23rd July 2018, 11:20
liposh

In my opinion the level of competition in ERC is not that high. When watching Grzyb you just have to ask yourself questions about competition. I was spectating Grzyb during last three years of Rally Hustopece and his results are 5th, 10th and 5th. He isn´t slow, but he isn´t some kind of top driver in middle Europe region. And there is no progress in both style of driving seen by eyes and results on paper. This is just his level, which is OK, but how can he be TOP 3 in Europe?
23rd July 2018, 11:46
dimviii

Quote:

Originally Posted by liposh

but how can he be TOP 3 in Europe?

retirements.
23rd July 2018, 13:07
dimviii

Ιngram small clip

https://twitter.com/OpensTightens/st...71581342330880
23rd July 2018, 13:33
Fast Eddie WRC

Re Gryzb - experience and consistency counts for a lot, especially when you are competing against mostly young driver's...
23rd July 2018, 14:53
RS

Quote:

Originally Posted by liposh

In my opinion the level of competition in ERC is not that high. When watching Grzyb you just have to ask yourself questions about competition. I was spectating Grzyb during last three years of Rally Hustopece and his results are 5th, 10th and 5th. He isn´t slow, but he isn´t some kind of top driver in middle Europe region. And there is no progress in both style of driving seen by eyes and results on paper. This is just his level, which is OK, but how can he be TOP 3 in Europe?

I think the speed at the front (by which I mean Lukyanuk and Gryazin) is pretty good now.. you can't beat Basso and Andreucci at home if you are slow. But the field could do with more depth and consistency.

Ingram is probably the one who has shown the most promise outside of that considering his lack of experience.
23rd July 2018, 15:00
Ucci

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jarek Z

So Alexey Lukyanuk has shown that the days of dangerous Italian drivers are gone. He was undoubtedly the best driver of the weekend. Congratulations

Undoubtedly the times when Italian drivers were totally dominating events on their home soil are gone (for example look at the final results of Mille Miglia 2005: https://www.ewrc-results.com/final/6...0-miglia-2005/), but obviously you haven't looked close the results of Simone Cempedelli:
1st stage: already on fourth corner rear drive-shaft failure....lost more than ten seconds.
2nd stage: on the first proper stage he immiedately set the best stage time
3rd stage: lost 5 sec compare to Luky
4th stage: set equal stage time as Luky
5th stage: flat tyre
6st stage, flat tyre again, had to retire

On sunday Cempedelli was the fastest over all. So, I do not want to minimalize the pefect victory of Luky (after all I have put him on first place in my pickem!), but Cempedelli is showing already for the last two seasons great speed (he is eaisily the fastest compare to Ucci, Scandola, Crungola, Nucita...), however his finish arrivals are very rare.....for some retirements the reason is technique failure, but he is also very ''crash prone''.
23rd July 2018, 15:02
tommeke_B

All we can learn from your link of Mille Miglia '05 is that there were almost no foreign drivers, and from those, very few fast ones... ;)
23rd July 2018, 15:05
dimviii

Campedelli was fast,but as Ucci said he is too much prone to crashes,broken rims,flat tyres etc.
Italian championship is not slow,they are still fast,just too many contenters for various reasons were out of the battle very early at this rally
23rd July 2018, 18:37
PLuto

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jarek Z

Why is Andrea Crugnola so slow? I remember reading somewhere that he was going to be a new Italian talent...

He was one of the biggest italian talents. But did some bad decisions and also lack of money...
23rd July 2018, 18:38
PLuto

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom206wrc

It's a nonsense about Simon Wagner on Rally-Base website !!! They give him 7' penalty for superrally but he seems to always finish stages(he says something at the end of almost each stage)and seems not to have any problems !! :s :confused:

He retired in SS 3 - https://rally-base.com/crew-profile/...8&crewId=41069
23rd July 2018, 18:40
PLuto

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jarek Z

Yes, it's possible, most top Italian drivers are much over 30 or even 40, but it doesn't explain the fact that only last year they were faster than top ERC crews. I have just found my comparison of stage times from last year. Crugnola was wiining stages and this year he is down in the 13th position. So last year the Italians were faster and just one year later so much slower. What has changed since last year?

Last year italians were driving under different conditions (and in different time). This year they must follow all ERC rules.
23rd July 2018, 18:43
PLuto

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mirek

Why they measure time of passing through three donuts and two chicanes is beyond me.

Anyway do they make roads from ice in Rome? It looks unnaturally slippery.

Last year, before podium there was road for coming cars. There was plenty of spectators, cars were doing donuts between them. It was toooooooooo dangerous. So thats why they decided to do it as regular stage with all safety measures.
23rd July 2018, 18:44
PLuto

Quote:

Originally Posted by m-ast

Stewards change yesterday decision on Gago's non prensence and they only quit him 10 points
http://www.rallydiromacapitale.it/do...a_erc_2018.pdf

It was difficult job...
23rd July 2018, 18:46
PLuto

Quote:

Originally Posted by liposh

In my opinion the level of competition in ERC is not that high. When watching Grzyb you just have to ask yourself questions about competition. I was spectating Grzyb during last three years of Rally Hustopece and his results are 5th, 10th and 5th. He isn´t slow, but he isn´t some kind of top driver in middle Europe region. And there is no progress in both style of driving seen by eyes and results on paper. This is just his level, which is OK, but how can he be TOP 3 in Europe?

You are out of reality. He is currently one of the fastest drivers in middle Europe, without any doubts. He did great rally, he was fighting with Andreucci and forced him to retire. He did really good job there.
23rd July 2018, 18:47
Mirek

Quote:

Originally Posted by PLuto

He retired in SS 3 - https://rally-base.com/crew-profile/...8&crewId=41069

The said confusing quotes of him after SS4 were on rally-base...
23rd July 2018, 18:47
PLuto

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ucci

Undoubtedly the times when Italian drivers were totally dominating events on their home soil are gone (for example look at the final results of Mille Miglia 2005: https://www.ewrc-results.com/final/6...0-miglia-2005/), but obviously you haven't looked close the results of Simone Cempedelli:
1st stage: already on fourth corner rear drive-shaft failure....lost more than ten seconds.
2nd stage: on the first proper stage he immiedately set the best stage time
3rd stage: lost 5 sec compare to Luky
4th stage: set equal stage time as Luky
5th stage: flat tyre
6st stage, flat tyre again, had to retire

On sunday Cempedelli was the fastest over all. So, I do not want to minimalize the pefect victory of Luky (after all I have put him on first place in my pickem!), but Cempedelli is showing already for the last two seasons great speed (he is eaisily the fastest compare to Ucci, Scandola, Crungola, Nucita...), however his finish arrivals are very rare.....for some retirements the reason is technique failure, but he is also very ''crash prone''.

Rallysport is not about winning stages, but about to be first in the finish...
23rd July 2018, 18:49
PLuto

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mirek

The said confusing quotes of him after SS4 were on rally-base...

I didnt seen it, there was really bad internet connection in service. So maybe some mistake...
24th July 2018, 00:20
Rally Power

Quote:

Originally Posted by RS

I think the speed at the front (by which I mean Lukyanuk and Gryazin) is pretty good now.. you can't beat Basso and Andreucci at home if you are slow. But the field could do with more depth and consistency.

You are forgetting Magalhães. This season he seems too focused on consistency and point scoring but we should believe he can be faster than guys like Grzyb or Kreim, with due respect. Surely it was disappointing not see him fighting for the podium in Canarias or Rome (he was P3 on both last year and he usually performs greatly on that kind of stages) and next rounds won’t probably be the best ones for him to shine but he’ll still have plenty of chances to show that he’s more than just a reliable driver.
24th July 2018, 00:33
Rally Power

Quote:

Originally Posted by m-ast

Stewards change yesterday decision on Gago's non prensence and they only quit him 10 points
http://www.rallydiromacapitale.it/do...a_erc_2018.pdf

Still 10 points more than what would be fair…
Many can find that penalties must be fully applied, but we should remember often how hard drivers fight for an extra point on a rally and how unfair is to wipe away that brilliant effort for some administrative reason or a minor sport fault. A fine and a suspended penalty would be enough in such cases.

Quote:

Originally Posted by focus206

Bah, it's just a rally not deserving to be in ERC (let alone WRC, as someone already suggests). Plenty of better rallies in Italy, or somewhere else in Europe.

Yep, this rally doesn’t seem to be the best one to represent Italy at the ERC, but an event in Italy (and one in France, btw) should be part of it. Strong local entries are a plus for the series.
24th July 2018, 08:37
Mirek

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rally Power

Still 10 points more than what would be fair…

Sorry but in the rules it's written black on white that he shall loose his license for exactly this infringement. Loosing 10 points by the decision of the stewards is much softer penalty and in a way he shall be glad it ended with loosing only 10 points instead of the license. For sure many of us didn't know that this rule even exists but that doesn't change a thing on the fact that what he did is clearly forbidden by the written rules.
24th July 2018, 09:55
pucky54

Quote:

Originally Posted by dimviii

SEA JETS sponsoring for Luky at this rally

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/927/2...4118cf82_b.jpg

Already since Acropolis :P
24th July 2018, 10:54
RS

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rally Power

You are forgetting Magalhães. This season he seems too focused on consistency and point scoring but we should believe he can be faster than guys like Grzyb or Kreim, with due respect. Surely it was disappointing not see him fighting for the podium in Canarias or Rome (he was P3 on both last year and he usually performs greatly on that kind of stages) and next rounds won’t probably be the best ones for him to shine but he’ll still have plenty of chances to show that he’s more than just a reliable driver.

I would say his results are consistent but not his speed. On some stages he is at the front but others he is way off. I don't know what the problem is, clearly he and the car are capable of it.

I still think he is a valuable addition to the ERC but I would like to see him fight for the championship on speed and not just reliability.
24th July 2018, 13:45
Jarek Z

Lukyanuk says that he didn't expect this win. I guess he thought that the Italians would be faster:
https://www.fiaerc.com/erc-qa-alexey-lukyanuk-4/
24th July 2018, 14:23
Rally Power

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mirek

For sure many of us didn't know that this rule even exists but that doesn't change a thing on the fact that what he did is clearly forbidden by the written rules.

Yep, rules are needed but they must be applied sensibly. In any democratic state, warnings, fines and suspended penalties are used on the legal system; shouldn’t the FIA be equally tolerant?

Quote:

Originally Posted by RS

I still think he is a valuable addition to the ERC but I would like to see him fight for the championship on speed and not just reliability.

Amen. Running on a tight budget and a rally to rally basis probably doesn’t allow him to risk a bit more.
24th July 2018, 18:09
Mirek

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rally Power

Yep, rules are needed but they must be applied sensibly. In any democratic state, warnings, fines and suspended penalties are used on the legal system; shouldn’t the FIA be equally tolerant?

Man, let's not start in this way. It has nothing to do with democracy. Every legal system has given range of penalties for most of the infringments and no, for most of them You don't get any warning or fine first.

We can discuss if such rule is need and if it's sensible to change it or cancel. But there is no point saying that Gago suffered some damage from wrong FIA decision. No, he suffered from his own mistake and the FIA gave him lesser penalty than what is written in the rules. They could have been stricter if they wanted.

PS what does it mean sensibly? It's forbidden to enter two event at the same time without withdrawing or excusing self from one of them and there is clearly given penalty for that. There is no ambiguity, no freedom in explanation of such rule and nothing to bend there.
24th July 2018, 21:08
Fast Eddie WRC

[QUOTE=dimviii;1186675]Ιngram small clip

Better angle :cool:

https://twitter.com/ChrisIngramGB/st...13708890968064
24th July 2018, 21:51
Co-driven

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC

I guess Kreim did well after having stuff stolen the day before the rally.

But his times were often quite slow and he was fortunate not to have any punctures like others.

I think it was Munnings and Wagner who had the materials stolen.
24th July 2018, 22:34
PLuto

Quote:

Originally Posted by Co-driven

I think it was Munnings and Wagner who had the materials stolen.

Yes, it was Catie and Simon.
25th July 2018, 16:47
Steve Boyd

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mirek

Man, let's not start in this way. It has nothing to do with democracy. Every legal system has given range of penalties for most of the infringments and no, for most of them You don't get any warning or fine first.

We can discuss if such rule is need and if it's sensible to change it or cancel. But there is no point saying that Gago suffered some damage from wrong FIA decision. No, he suffered from his own mistake and the FIA gave him lesser penalty than what is written in the rules. They could have been stricter if they wanted.

PS what does it mean sensibly? It's forbidden to enter two event at the same time without withdrawing or excusing self from one of them and there is clearly given penalty for that. There is no ambiguity, no freedom in explanation of such rule and nothing to bend there.

The reason for this FIA rule is that entering one event & then not turning up because you have entered another event is a breach of contract in civil law. If you look at the rules of any ASN that adopts the FIA code you should find that this is also a national rule. It has been a national rule in the UK for as long as I can remember & that's about 45 years.
25th July 2018, 18:41
Fast Eddie WRC

Quote:

Originally Posted by PLuto

Yes, it was Catie and Simon.

The ES commentator said Kreim.

They must've heard him constantly complaining about lack of confidence in the pacenotes and thought his own were stolen...

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