I wonder what the person who uploaded the video thinks? If it had been me I'd never have uploaded it.
I wonder what the person who uploaded the video thinks? If it had been me I'd never have uploaded it.
Having a strong cup of great Turkish tea right now. Thanks!Quote:
Originally Posted by Franky
Exactly. Don't give the people who are against it valid arguments to make arguments for it stick.Quote:
Originally Posted by PLuto
I'm a big fan of Ogier and I have sympathies for Tanak as well. They should both be penalised for breaking traffic rules. I'll leave it up to the local police and government as well as the FIA respectively what that would be in any given case.
I haven't still got an answer on what rules Tänak did break? In Ogier case it's clear. Still no answer about a small drift... Can our french friends help?Quote:
Originally Posted by Watson
Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk
Toyota no, but FIA yes definitely. I would love to get a proper FIA clarification on this and how it is in line with their road traffic safety campaigns. And as far as I can see the point of the existence of this forum is to share our opinions and raise discussion about various things related to rallying, so I don't see any problem here whatsoever. Even if nothing happens because of these discussions, now more people are aware of the whole issue and the snowball rolls. It was only because the link was posted on another forum that I even found out about this myself. It more seems like the problem is that I have undesirable views on the matter for some people.[/QUOTE]
Few things:
If you want clarification, you need to ask the FIA then.
I think it has created a great debate and to be honest, I’m now torn 50/50 whether it was acceptable or not.
Don’t worry that there has been opposing reactions... take the sensible ones into account and discount the silly responses.... bit like life itself.
I do think you have created a little bit of a beast and you’ve probably put yourself in pole position to ask the question to the FIA. In my eyes, you need to follow this through properly.
Although his driving may seem irresponsible, I still think a massive fact in this is the surface he was on... kind of bambi on ice as opposed to ‘drifting on tarmac’...
I'm no police officer but i would assume most of these?Quote:
Originally Posted by cali
*Basic rules for traffic.
Everyone should be careful and be alert and careful so that there is no danger or injury and that other traffic is not unnecessarily obstructed or disturbed.
Driver should also pay attention to those living near or staying on the road."
*Dangerous overtaking: Fine €135 Licence suspension 3 years. (Up to 3 years?)
*Reckless or careless driving. (Which is a pretty international law if I'm not wrong)
*Perturbing or obstructing traffic: Prison 2 years Fine €4,500 License suspension 3 years
Ogier: Using a mobile phone while driving a motor vehicle €135
https://www.french-property.com/guid...ving-offences/
In Ogier case you have old lawQuote:
Originally Posted by SubaruNorway
PHONING AT THE WHEEL BEWARE.... HANDS FREE mobile-phone use is banned in France. The new rule applies to all hands-free phones using a headset, bluetooth or wired. Drivers caught using a mobile phone while on the road in France are liable to an on-the-spot fine of 135 Euros – and 3 penalty points if they have a French driving licence. And from 2018 on immediate suspension of their licence (regardless of nationality). Statistics show that phoning at the wheel increases the risk of accident by a factor of three. The only type of mobile phone now legal to use in France while driving is one that is entirely hands-free and headphone free.
So a voice controlled system is the only thing allowed if i understand it right?
Yes only voice controlled in car built system.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SubaruNorway
Overtaking? He was passing a car parked/stopped in a place where it is also forbidden internationally. He slowed down, assessed the situation.
Well, drift on ice can happen to everybody. Just slippier than expected.
What traffic was he obstructing? There was a stopped car obstructing traffic in a forbidden zone (maybe tech. issues or something, not blaming).
I find this thread very amusing because it's full of logical errors. Half of it is attacking the person instead of the subject. The other half is trying to prove it's no big deal because there have happened worse things in rallysport.
I gave up for some time ago. Clearly there are many fans who dont think any excessive punishment is necessary, and then couple of trolls and simpletons who refuse to understand that world is not black and white after their whims. Some claim that what Ott did was dangerous driving. In some posts there is option that perhaps what he did wasnt dangerous due to his skills and his car, but he is giving bad example. So what is it - dangerous or not? Giving bad example is probably FIA issue (unsportsmanlike conduct etc). But nobody seems to come even to common position what is it exactly that he did. Neglegting Ogiers violation is glaringly obvious by some. Also nationality card is played... What bothers me most that critics here seem to have all of the sudden discovered that this kind of conduct should be condemned and are demanding some public execution. Why couldnt 1st case be warning and fine and if message doesnt get to drivers, then increase punishments? I have had similar dicussions with hard-core vegans about human-animal relations, there is simply no compromise or reasoning possible, no dialogue, just repeating same overblown arguments like broken gramophone.
Drifting, powersliding and all sorts of manouvers like that on public roads fall under the broad category of 'dangerous driving' or whatever it may be called in any given country. If you do a drift in front of a cop, he'll pull you over and you'll go to court. Even if there is no other human soul within a square mile you'll get trouble because the judge will argue that you can't predict whether someone will come out of nowhere. While drifting, you have less control over your car and you'll have more difficulty avoiding somebody than if you drive normally, whether you break the speed limit or not; by drifting you show no responsibility for other people on the road - and that's what you will get punished for.Quote:
Originally Posted by cali
That is the law, you can agree whether that law is just or not, the fact is that it makes rallying look bad in the public eye because laws are being broken.
Go fish... yeah sure, if you slide in snow, you'll go to court :talk: there is no law anywhere that explains drifting or what so ever.. from what angle and speed somebody could say you are drifting or sliding.. Anttti' and other.. b*tthurts, I doubt that you haven't ever gone over speed limits or yellow light or etc... you are also a bad example for everybody else..Quote:
Originally Posted by Watson
What are we talking about, this is the reason me and many others want to explain something. You want to make someone example to ohters and punish him like crazy. And ruin his whole season, because of small sideways driving on snowy road. Be real!!! We dont live in year 1900 or as someone allready said in North-Korea, to make examples that other will afraid. I am not against to give Tanak warning and maybe fine and then this happens more maybe time penalty. And I am sure this is not happening any more.Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiK7
but you can make the claim to FIA and see what they will answer, you have these rights.
You are so childish, one has to think you cannot possibly be over 14 years old... and even if you were as young, your comments would still be a shame.Quote:
Originally Posted by TypeR
Some quite terrifying reactions on here. Ott is not driving correctly here and he shouldn't be doing it, but this shouldn't just be aimed at Ott but all drivers. Just because they're rally drivers doesn't earn them special privileges on road sections, it's not OK and shouldn't be encouraged. Either make time controls less stressful for drivers or penalize them when driving illegally, but this has been adressed in here by now.
No, life isn't about being politically correct all the time and I agree with you on that. But one can still act responsible and realize what might not be clever to do.Quote:
Originally Posted by J_n_z
And the generalization in post makes my head ache a bit...
https://www.quora.com/Is-it-legal-to...w-speed-limitsQuote:
Originally Posted by cali
https://www.google.it/search?q=drift...hrome&ie=UTF-8
About as terrifying as someone applying a small degree of opposite lock while going relatively slowly up an icy road.Quote:
Originally Posted by BigWorm
I happen to know a guy it happened and how the whole thing went down. Hell, even if you do a burnout you can get trouble. But don't take it from me. Next time you see a copcar, pull a slide - under the speedlimit of course - and see what happens for yourself.Quote:
Originally Posted by TypeR
Wow 18 pages of nonsense. Keep it up :)
I don't think I've ever seen an NZ cop out in the snow! Even if they were, if you said it was an accidental slide due to the snow they'd have a tough time proving in court that you did it deliberately. ;) ... "I'm sorry your honour, it was slipperier than I realised. After the car slid a little bit I went home even more slowly and carefully than I already was"Quote:
Originally Posted by Watson
I got pulled over for a chat after a cheeky slide around a wet roundabout one night a few years ago... after a (clean) breath test they told me that right in front of the police station wasn't a very clever place to do that, and I should find somewhere more suitable next time. Small town cops are generally more practical and less bureacratic about things.
Well fair enough if the cop sees that you were not doing it in a dangerous spot and lets you... ahem, slide. That is just good will on the cops behalf and you can't rely on it.Quote:
Originally Posted by GravelBen
Still you can't get mad if they don't. As with the cheeky 'it was slippier than I expected' excuse... well yes that will probably bail you out. However, if they have you on camera and there is rear wheel blocking due to handbreak use or heavy acceleration into a corner involved they pretty much have you by the balls.
Yeah I agree with you in that regard, I think there is a big difference (both in appearance and in safety) between a small controlled slide exiting a slow corner and a big dramatic drift with a committed entry/handbrake etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Watson
In my younger days I was a bit looser but my approach to sideways fun on publics roads now is that there is a time and a place... if there are people around (cops or public) then its probably not a suitable time and place.
To get it back on the original topic - personally I didn't see too much issue with Tanak's little slide on the snow at low speed, though he did look pretty close to the other car at the end. I understand the point about make the sport look irresponsible in the public eye but the people there were clearly encouraging him, not disconnected members of the general public. In that sense its not really any different to other examples given like winners donuts in a carpark with marshalls standing nearby... though I don't know if they're allowed to do that anymore either?
Other cases where drivers are genuinely dangerous in trying to make up time on road sections etc... I definitely agree with the sentiment that appropriate punishments should be given for that.
[QUOTE=BigWorm;1170626]Some quite terrifying reactions on here. Ott is not driving correctly here and he shouldn't be doing it.
Terrifying...lol. You F1 ladyboys really need to wind your necks in and man the f*ck up, or stick to the roundy roundy stuff.
If the Gendarmerie saw Ott doing that they would have applauded, given him a police escort and asked for his autograph.
I have today brought this case to various offices in FIA and offices which are affiliated with FIA, both sporting as well as mobility divisions concerned with road traffic safety. Whether they want to set an example or not is a different case, but the ball is firmly rolling at least, like it should be. My bottom line still remains, I am a great fan of rallying and I don't want to see drivers disrespecting the sport.Quote:
Originally Posted by T16
Christ
And lol at the chumps confusing health and safety with polical correctness. Something like my granny would have done ffs!
I´m sorry for you. Not even a real fan are you.Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiK7
Must be some sad Jari Matti fanboy.
I'm sorry for you dude, Ott is just faster.
I saw a number of Rally drivers making er.. pit stops before a stage. I chose not to take pictures.
Sometimes things are better left unseen :eek:.
Don't you think you are over reacting a bit? Do you really think you are doing something good for rally sport? So sad.....Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiK7
+1Quote:
Originally Posted by rallye-vid
http://i0.wp.com/www.towleroad.com/w...size=195%2C195Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiK7
I don't care what other fans think of my views. There are so many rally fans in the world whose concepts of rally fandom I don't agree with and that's fine. Last weekend I spent hours enjoying the spectacle through All Live and I was left with a deep sensation of an era of great new opportunities opening for WRC. Then on Monday I saw the video we are talking about here and now more than perhaps ever before WRC needs to rid itself of extra silly "attractions" like this. I am very well aware of the history of road driving behaviour in WRC and I know this cannot continue. And that is the reason why I have taken further action on it and brought it to the FIA. I care about the sport far more than what some rally fan might or might not think of me. And I suggest that as a healthy attitude for everyone here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rallyper
And like I have stated before, this is nothing to do with nationality, person in question, speed on the stages or anything else. If Latvala, Lappi, Ogier or whoever else took the same bit of road the same way, my views and actions would not change. Tänak was the fastest Toyota driver fair and square on the stages but we are not talking about that here at all are we? This is about the sport of rallying and how it is represented. I place the sport above any competitors in it.
Did you report about Ogier as well?Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiK7
Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk
No, if you are talking about Monte Carlo then I don't approve of using mobile phones while driving, but I consider a rally driver showing off for the fans on public roads far more damaging for WRC's image. Just look at this forum and see how many people approve of it probably largely because they are fans of Ott Tänak. A professional rally driver has a following and they have publicity and with that also comes responsibility not to disrespect their sport in public.Quote:
Originally Posted by cali
Colin McRae was my childhood hero and if I as a kid saw him do this kind of stuff during a rally on public roads (which let's be fair is highly likely he did at times), I would have been like "f...yeah that's cool". And I really don't want WRC drivers giving this kind of impressions to their fans today. Let alone the image it gives about rallying to the general public.
So you turned a blind eye for the infringement which is very clearly forbidden in France but selected to report another which is debatable. I call it selective whatever your reasons are. I'm not a fanboy although yes I'm crossing my fingers to Tänak and have few other favourites in the WRC. I would react the same if this was happened to Neuville (my villain in WRC). It's just dishonest from your side now :)Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiK7
Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiK7
I doubt that it's nothing to do with nationality.. Anyway, how is using mobile ,,safer'' than a little slide and not worth snitching (if using mobile takes your eyes off the road for some time), while sliding on basically empty road with two hands on wheel is?Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiK7