[WRC] WRC Rally Sweden 2018 - February 15-18:

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Originally Posted by mknight

Certainly Sweden and Finland are the two rallies where Toyota is likely to be the strongest. Just like last year when they won both events.
That said last year after Sweden they had 4 rallies without podium (all due to being too slow) and after Finland they again were not on podium for last 4 rallies (only good pace was in Australia).

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To be fair the lack of pace early on was mostly bad design. In Mexico, Argentina and to an extent Portugal the cars had major overheating issues. The pace was good in Sardegna with a podium for Latvala and power stage victory for Lappi, and in Poland Latvala was third until his gearbox gave up. PS victory for him too.

The pace was off in Spain and Germany, although that might be down to the drivers (Latvala retiring early with failures/damage and Lappi and Hanninen remaining). WRGB lack of pace was surprising but down to bad design as well, with all the mud collecting in the rear. Pace in Australia was good.

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Toyota will be really strong in Sweden. They have been testing so much on snow this winter! All drivers test 4days atleast! Tomorrow I´m going to follow JM test near Jyväskylä. it's really a big advantage that they get tested without any restriction in the Jyväskylä area.

I think Latvala is strong favourite for win but Ott can make 2nd surprise. If there is lot of snow in friday stages can Lappi be leader friday night. 7th starting position is so big advantage. Very interesting rally comeing.. Can´t wait!

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Originally Posted by steve.mandzij

To be fair the lack of pace early on was mostly bad design. In Mexico, Argentina and to an extent Portugal the cars had major overheating issues. The pace was good in Sardegna with a podium for Latvala and power stage victory for Lappi, and in Poland Latvala was third until his gearbox gave up. PS victory for him too.

The pace was off in Spain and Germany, although that might be down to the drivers (Latvala retiring early with failures/damage and Lappi and Hanninen remaining). WRGB lack of pace was surprising but down to bad design as well, with all the mud collecting in the rear. Pace in Australia was good.

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Hänninen finished 4th in both Germany and Catalunya. In Catalunya he was 55" off Meeke. In Germany all three crews scored fastest times. Not exactly off pace in my opinion.

Clothing for sweden, tips: generally is many thin layers better than few and thick. It is air between the layers that keeps you warm.

Wool as inner layer. Wool is warm even when wet/sweaty.
turtle neck with zip is smart. Zip to adjust air in/out.
Next layer on upper body could be a fleece sweater with zip, or a jacket.
In addition bring a warm thick knitted sweater of wool, to put on when standing still to watch.
Outer layer need to be wind proof, and water repellant in case of rain. An alpine/ slalom two piece dress is perfect.

last but not least, a wool tight knitted beanie, could be with fleece. 60-70% of heat loss from the body happens through the head.

Nice thick boots with extra inner sole, again wool. You need thick socks, wool again, so they need to be a number larger than you normally use, but not as big so that your foot moves a lot inside the boot. But it is the air in the sock that keeps you warm.

Glowes when you walk and wool mittens when you stand still.
Small backpack to keep the clothes you do not wear when you move.

This is meant to dress for days from minus 10 to minus 20, and have a nice day outside in cold weather.
Do not thing of crazy nordic people with little to no clothes, most of them are used to and their body adapted to cold weather during many years. (Or stupid and or drunk)

Same with us going to warm climate, the body takes time to adapt to big changes!
it is much easier to adjust cold climate with correct clothing, than going from 15 to 50 degrees. When you only have the speedo left, not much more to help the body with, apart from ac, shadow and cold beer :beer:

have a safe trip, come prepared!

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Originally Posted by steve.mandzij

To be fair the lack of pace early on was mostly bad design. In Mexico, Argentina and to an extent Portugal the cars had major overheating issues. The pace was good in Sardegna with a podium for Latvala and power stage victory for Lappi, and in Poland Latvala was third until his gearbox gave up. PS victory for him too.

The pace was off in Spain and Germany, although that might be down to the drivers (Latvala retiring early with failures/damage and Lappi and Hanninen remaining). WRGB lack of pace was surprising but down to bad design as well, with all the mud collecting in the rear. Pace in Australia was good.

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The mud collecting thing was just a PR reason, the real reason was they messed up with the damper setups badly..

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Originally Posted by AMSS

The mud collecting thing was just a PR reason, the real reason was they messed up with the damper setups badly..

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[citation needed]

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Originally Posted by Hartusvuori

Hänninen finished 4th in both Germany and Catalunya. In Catalunya he was 55" off Meeke. In Germany all three crews scored fastest times. Not exactly off pace in my opinion.

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Also in TDC, Latvala was fourth and won the power stage

I guess some tire chains is a must have?

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Originally Posted by rallye-vid

I guess some tire chains is a must have?

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Proper tires are enough

Yeah, we are not going on slicks there ;)

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Originally Posted by rallye-vid

Yeah, we are not going on slicks there ;)

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You can always order new shoes for the car for one weekend of the year ;)

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Originally Posted by satukata

Toyota will be really strong in Sweden. They have been testing so much on snow this winter! All drivers test 4days atleast! Tomorrow I´m going to follow JM test near Jyväskylä. it's really a big advantage that they get tested without any restriction in the Jyväskylä area.

I think Latvala is strong favourite for win but Ott can make 2nd surprise. If there is lot of snow in friday stages can Lappi be leader friday night. 7th starting position is so big advantage. Very interesting rally comeing.. Can´t wait!

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One thing is a bit worrying to me:

Without knowing exactly it seems testing in Finland was on snow with much gravel on surface. I´m sure there will be more of black ice under the snow cover on the Rally Sweden stages than on testing in Finland.

So what could it mean? Maybe surprisingly more slippery to JML, OT and Lappi. I don´t know. Hope not of course.

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Originally Posted by AnttiL

Also in TDC, Latvala was fourth and won the power stage

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In 2018 Monte Meeke finished 4th and won the power stage ;) Relatively similar.

Imo it's quite clear that in 2017 M-Sport had allround the best car, they were clearly fighting in top 3 on every rally.

Hyundai was 2nd best with lack of consistent pace in Finland and Spain (on tarmac).
Toyota would come after with Mexico, Argentina, (Poland - in dry conditions), Germany, Spain, GB to name a few.
With Citroen it's easier to count where they actually were competitive and you get 4 rallies.

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Originally Posted by Rallyper

One thing is a bit worrying to me:

Without knowing exactly it seems testing in Finland was on snow with much gravel on surface. I´m sure there will be more of black ice under the snow cover on the Rally Sweden stages than on testing in Finland.

So what could it mean? Maybe surprisingly more slippery to JML, OT and Lappi. I don´t know. Hope not of course.

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I haven't been at the tests on site either, but... It's been relatively same weather in Central Finland as it've been in Varmländ region. From mid December to mid January subzero temps, few days with proper minus temps. Last week it went above zero for a day, melted a lot of snow, but that all froze again the next night, so I'd suppose those test roads have had some ice too on top of that concrete hard frozen gravel.

Regarding surprises, Latvala have won 4 out last 9 Rally Sweden's, so...

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Originally Posted by Hartusvuori

I haven't been at the tests on site either, but... It's been relatively same weather in Central Finland as it've been in Varmländ region. From mid December to mid January subzero temps, few days with proper minus temps. Last week it went above zero for a day, melted a lot of snow, but that all froze again the next night, so I'd suppose those test roads have had some ice too on top of that concrete hard frozen gravel.

Regarding surprises, Latvala have won 4 out last 9 Rally Sweden's, so...

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Just a reflection of the videos I saw. I hope JML wins again. Would be nice.

I was watching JM test today. Road condition was great. Full ice and nice snowbank and no gravel..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-357CsI-YkY

JM was in good feeling!

"SS Röjden & SS Svullrya Temprature- 10C and BIG snowbanks!"

https://twitter.com/RallySweden/stat...20992460427265

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Originally Posted by BleAivano

"SS Röjden & SS Svullrya Temprature- 10C and BIG snowbanks!"

https://twitter.com/RallySweden/stat...20992460427265

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Thing is, because of the mild period 1,5 weeks ago the snowbanks on the Norwegian side are rock-hard. So most likely it won't be very good idea to lean against them for the new WRCs with "soft" carbon sidepods on the rear.
You don't exactly see drivers leaning on armco guardrails either.

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Originally Posted by mknight

Thing is, because of the mild period 1,5 weeks ago the snowbanks on the Norwegian side are rock-hard. So most likely it won't be very good idea to lean against them for the new WRCs with "soft" carbon sidepods on the rear.
You don't exactly see drivers leaning on armco guardrails either.

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All those are from the Swedish side, it was closed by the border in the north tonight. Funny how they clear the roads different on the Swedish side both on the main road and in the forest, it's not so straight in Norway and not that hard, it was a bit hard finding good place since you don't see much this year. Video coming from the old Finnskogen stage at Rally Finnskog today close to Svullrya and Røjden.

https://www.accuweather.com/en/se/to...692?view=table

Forecast indicating the weather is staying below 0 for the next two weeks with fresh snowfall forecasted just before the rally starts. That would mean a huge disadvantage for Ogier.

Accuweather hasn`t been really accurate imo...and it`s so far away.
Gismeteo.ru shows no snowfall, a few plusses day and few minuses at night.
Yr.no does not provide such a long term forecast.

It's way too early to make forecast for Sweden WRC weekend. For such a long period it will change every day. My expierience shows you can start to believe 5 days before.

Follow this one for first day weather: https://www.yr.no/place/Norway/Hedma...g.html?spr=eng
Hour by hour: https://www.yr.no/place/Norway/Hedma...r_by_hour.html

I know it's early for the rally forecasts but I'm also interested in the weather before the rally in the coming week, will there be more snow or will it be gone

For the snow to disappear you'd need a week with 5+ temps (especially for day 1), that's extremely unlikely.

More (fresh) snow would mostly make a difference on friday due to the running order.

But I get what you mean, there is whole lot of options between these two and a day or two with warm temperatures can make the surface more icy, while some snowfall will make it more slippery.

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Originally Posted by mknight

For the snow to disappear you'd need a week with 5+ temps (especially for day 1), that's extremely unlikely.

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Especially with the current forecasts, they can't be that wrong for the upcoming week anymore.

Yes they can... our latest pluss degrees with rain, which melted all the snow and ruined ice tracks, was supposed to be -15 all the time, forecast changed 5/6 days before. On the plus side it was supposed to last for a week, but only lasted 5 days (again changed). But hopefully it won`t happen again, nice winter is back and February is supposedly the coldest month of the year/winter. About time too to get some normal winter weather. Hasn`t happened for 4 years now, let`s hope 5. is the real one again. Started a bit late, but March is also still ahead.

Where would people recommend to go for Friday stages that we can see both runs over the stage and make it back into torsby for the evening stage also? We went to Rodjen stage last year and seen both runs and back onto torsby for evening.


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https://twitter.com/RallySweden/stat...10258923474944

SS Hagfors, Vargåsen & Likenäs Temperature -11c and A LOT of snow! Could it be better?
*#winterwonderland #closertosnowbanks photo: Krister Berglund

With Mads driving for Citroen in Sweden there will be 10 former WRC rally winner's competing there. Is this a record ?

(Only Breen and Sunninen of the WRC driver's havent won a WRC event).

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Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC

(Only Breen and Sunninen of the WRC driver's havent won a WRC event).

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Henning, Yazeed and Bertelli? ;) But yeah, out of the works drivers, only those two without a win. And it will take a while until we see the next maiden winner. Probably not this year at all.

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Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC

With Mads driving for Citroen in Sweden there will be 10 former WRC rally winner's competing there. Is this a record ?

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1000 Lakes Rally 1990 entry list: Mikael Ericsson, Juha Kankkunen, Markku Alen, Carlos Sainz, Timo Salonen, Ari Vatanen, Didier Auriol, Pentti Airikkala, Kenneth Eriksson, Hannu Mikkola and Jorge Recalde – that makes it 11 rally winners.

EDIT: Rally Finland 2003: Grönholm, Burns, Rovanperä, Märtin, Solberg, Mäkinen, Schwarz, Auriol, McRae, Loeb, Sainz, Vatanen - 12 rally winners.

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Originally Posted by AnttiL

1000 Lakes Rally 1990 entry list: Mikael Ericsson, Juha Kankkunen, Markku Alen, Carlos Sainz, Timo Salonen, Ari Vatanen, Didier Auriol, Pentti Airikkala, Kenneth Eriksson, Hannu Mikkola and Jorge Recalde – that makes it 11 rally winners.

EDIT: Rally Finland 2003: Grönholm, Burns, Rovanperä, Märtin, Solberg, Mäkinen, Schwarz, Auriol, McRae, Loeb, Sainz, Vatanen - 12 rally winners.

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Outside of those, NORF 2003 was also entered by future winners Latvala, Hirvonen, Duval and Meeke. Between them, there should be about 280 wins.

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Originally Posted by AnttiL

1000 Lakes Rally 1990 entry list: Mikael Ericsson, Juha Kankkunen, Markku Alen, Carlos Sainz, Timo Salonen, Ari Vatanen, Didier Auriol, Pentti Airikkala, Kenneth Eriksson, Hannu Mikkola and Jorge Recalde – that makes it 11 rally winners.

EDIT: Rally Finland 2003: Grönholm, Burns, Rovanperä, Märtin, Solberg, Mäkinen, Schwarz, Auriol, McRae, Loeb, Sainz, Vatanen - 12 rally winners.

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Finland 2002 also had 12 rally winners (Grönholm, Burns, Rovanperä, Sainz, McRae, Delecour, Mäkinen, Eriksson, Schwarz, Kankkunen, Loeb, Salonen). And you can actually argue whether that should be 13 (same goes for 2003 as well) as Loix won in Portugal in 1996, when it was a W2L event.

Acropolis 1984 had 11 winners (Röhrl, Alen, Vatanen, Mouton, Salonen, Mikkola, Mehta, Blomqvist, Toivonen, Nicolas, Warmbold), as did Monte Carlo 1994 (Kankkunen, Sainz, Auriol, Biasion, Schwarz, Delecour, McRae, Eriksson, Ragnotti, Oreille, Timo Mäkinen).

edit. I think we have a winner... Monte Carlo 1983 had 13 winners: Röhrl, Mikkola, Vatanen, Alen, Mouton, Toivonen, Andruet, Blomqvist, Ragnotti, Frequelin, Therier, Salonen, Warmbold.

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Originally Posted by Allez Andruet

Finland 2002 also had 12 rally winners (Grönholm, Burns, Rovanperä, Sainz, McRae, Delecour, Mäkinen, Eriksson, Schwarz, Kankkunen, Loeb, Salonen). And you can actually argue whether that should be 13 (same goes for 2003 as well) as Loix won in Portugal in 1996, when it was a W2L event.

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Loeb was actually one event short of being a WRC winner. As his debut win in Germany was a few weeks later.

13 guys from 1983 Monte is very impressive though and will be tough to beat I'd assume.

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Originally Posted by Allez Andruet

Finland 2002 also had 12 rally winners (Grönholm, Burns, Rovanperä, Sainz, McRae, Delecour, Mäkinen, Eriksson, Schwarz, Kankkunen, Loeb, Salonen). And you can actually argue whether that should be 13 (same goes for 2003 as well) as Loix won in Portugal in 1996, when it was a W2L event.
Acropolis 1984 had 11 winners (Röhrl, Alen, Vatanen, Mouton, Salonen, Mikkola, Mehta, Blomqvist, Toivonen, Nicolas, Warmbold), as did Monte Carlo 1994 (Kankkunen, Sainz, Auriol, Biasion, Schwarz, Delecour, McRae, Eriksson, Ragnotti, Oreille, Timo Mäkinen).
edit. I think we have a winner... Monte Carlo 1983 had 13 winners: Röhrl, Mikkola, Vatanen, Alen, Mouton, Toivonen, Andruet, Blomqvist, Ragnotti, Frequelin, Therier, Salonen, Warmbold.

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Also 12 in Portugal 2001 (and several 10 and 11); besides the mentioned 83 MC, also 13 in ‘77 RAC and ‘02 Network Q. Digging a bit more, we’ll probably find a MC or GB rally with a 14 record…btw, how about the event with larger entry of world champs?

PS: before the mandatory entries (mid 00’s ?), Portugal, Finland and Greece were always popular among manus, but MC and GB were clearly (and understandably) their favorite WRC events.

Mandatory entry started in 1994 with the cut down calendar and event rotation.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/Enth...4861821255033/
Start of Hagfors-stage ! A lot of snow and large snowbanks.

This group are good one if you shall spectating Rally Sweden. Around 4000 members.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/Enth...ofRallySweden/

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Originally Posted by Simmi

13 guys from 1983 Monte is very impressive though and will be tough to beat I'd assume.

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Apart from the other RACs mentioned before, also 1981 RAC had 13 past event winners. (Toivonen, Vatanen, Alén, Frequelin, Mikkola, Salonen, Waldegård, Ragnotti, Mouton, Kulläng, Eklund, Blomqvist and Clark.)

1991 RAC would still get my vote as the all time best WRC rally entry list. With the exception of Waldegård and Röhrl, all World Rally Champions from 1979 to 1999 took part in that rally, all in official factory cars. Lancia, Toyota, Mitsubishi, Subaru, Ford, Mazda and Nissan all brought cars to that rally. That rally also saw Colin McRae spectacularly leading a WRC event for the first time as well as deciding a third title for Kankkunen, which was a new record at the time. What a rally.

Vargåsen stage https://twitter.com/RallySweden/stat...71167598247936