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On top of that (or below) you can search for seasons in the modern era (last 15 years, might not be golden but easier to find on youtube at least) which were quite tight at the time such as the: 2003,2007,2009 (you will find it in dailymotion, not youtube) & to get a better insight about Ogier, the 2011 season.Quote:
Originally Posted by Simmi
Let him some sleep guys, he can't watch everything at once ;)
I have briefly checked out older seasons, but honestly, I am spending most of my time learning this season. My philosophy is kind of to understand the present in order to appreciate the past if you know what I mean. I feel that I have a basic understanding of the sport right now, but much more to learn really. I am thinking that during the winter months, I will be studying quite a bit to understand the history of this great sport.
Revman, I sense that you've reached the point of no return.
No joke. Last weekend was rough. I seriously could not sleep. I was vacationing with my family, and my wife found me in the bathroom at about 3 a.m. watching WRC on my phone. She just shook her head, and went back to bed. She remembers my routine when Toyota was in F1. LOL.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
Quote:
Originally Posted by Franky
Truly. It's over. I'm in....and I love it. Seriously I saw the broadcasts from Stages 21 and 23 from last weekend, and I simply couldn't stop watching. The cars are fabulous and driven to the limit by absolutely incredible drivers. Great stuff.
If you watch stuff from the 70s/ 80s, then you'll realise that its almost a different sport. There are two excellent DVDs made by Duke; The Greatest Years of Rallying; 1970s and 1980s. Highly recommended.
It's also on youtube ;)
1970' https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGb4CmVPURM
1980' https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNRuiqowbeo
Hey you guys, I thought you wanted him to get some sleep ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
I'd add 2001 and the '94-'97 as great years to watch.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eli
Although maybe a bit less exciting the Loeb era is important to watch in order to get an idea of how (boringly) dominant he was.
Quote:
Originally Posted by seb_sh
Well 2003 season wasn't boring at all, at the time they said it was the most exciting season in years (before Citroen would come to dominate both titles), 2007 was a heck of a duel between Loeb & Gronholm which unfortunately was lost by an error from Marcus in Ireland (which is by the way, when I started watching the WRC) in stage 4. 2009 season started out really boring with 5/5 wins for Loeb but after that, caught many people's attention. 2011 is just so you can see the beginning of Citroen's trouble, a hint of things to come..and the tension that is the rivalry between Loeb & Ogier.
I think 94-96 was a bit lame with the rotating events and Toyota penalty year. 1997 was still a bit lame with only three teams but still very tight and interesting with the new cars. 1998-1999 was super tight and interesting with new teams and drivers all the time. 2000-2003 was still very good as well, it was like a new generation of drivers and teams coming in. All those aforementioned years I followed pretty intensely, after that I stopped following the sport completely for almost 15 years...until the WRC2017 cars and VWexit made it interesting again.Quote:
Originally Posted by seb_sh
Rallying was one of the first forms of motorsport that I was introduced to as a kid many years ago, but my following tailed off once I went to university. I started following it again couple of years ago and I am loving it. What I really enjoy this season is that, for me personally, it represents the missing 1987 and beyond (yes, I was there as a teenager), it is what rallying should have been back then, i.e. instead of banning Group B, FIA should (as originally planned) have imposed power restrictions and also introduce greater safety measures on the cars and impose better spectators control, while keeping the excitement of Groups B and S. Basically it should have gone in the direction of the current season. So I really enjoy this. On top of that, we have a stunningly exciting season.
I agree that the first gr.A cars were quite boring and lame compared to gr.B but later even gr.A cars become really spectacular. I personally really love those videos from early 1990' even though I could not visit the events myself.
By the way my first ever somewhat direct contact with WRC was in 1995 Brno carshow (aside of watching Eurosport and WRC photo calendars which my father gave me every year). I was ten years old back then and there was gr.A Impreza 555 of Carlos Sainz on display there and I run there and sat inside. And that's how it started :)
My first ever rally event was Germany 2003 i believe. Not knowing how a rally works we missed all top cars at about every stage the first day.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
From than on, the virus got to me, strange how you really begin to mis rally when its een a couple of months between events.
Must say we as Belgians have been lucky to have a Belgian driver in the WRC sice that period, first Duval and than Neuville.
If there's no Belgian in WRC that would take some of the fun away i'm afraid.
Also have to be honnest, National level rally's dont bother me much anymore, only going to events nearby or in combination whit small holiday.
Haha I think someone did warn you it was addictive!! :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Revman
I'm glad you posted as I've learned a lot of things too. So much has changed since I drifted away from the sport following Subaru's departure.
Attachment 1364Quote:
Originally Posted by NickRally
Would be nice to see a modern day Quattro (like the prototype they unveiled in Paris 2010 Motorshow) but that is unlikely to happen now...or a Modern day 208 T16 (not an R5)....Quote:
Originally Posted by mmm
Group S was actually supposed to come into effect in 1988. The teams were already working towards that and Group B evolution homologations were being limited before TDC. Group S cars would have had a small turbo engine with 300 horsepower and they could have been an instance a model that's not actually sold in the showroom at all. When I saw the test videos of 2017 cars I instantly thought of Group S.Quote:
Originally Posted by NickRally
When talking about gr.S... how many of You guys know that Audi was doing development testing behind the iron curtain in Czechoslovakia where a local company even built a whole secret testing area according to their wishes? They tested there gr.B cars but also mid-engine prototypes as a part of gr.S development. The area is now deserted but at the early 90' it was used as a TV stage of Barum rally.
And the end result was this beast: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pm53Tm7OMyQ driven by no less than Hannu Mikkola on the Goodwood Festival just some days ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
The RS002 was actually never in Dešná (the testing area in Czechoslovakia) but they tested a mid-engined mule using body panels from normal gr.B S1.
It's this car on the right side of this photo from Dešná which was published more than twenty years later.
http://sweb.cz/petrwrc/101892_11mg.jpg
The history of RS002 is also interesting. Roland Gumpert, boss of Audi Motorsport was keeping the development of mid-engined car secret from Ferdinand Piech because Piech insisted on using stock configuration for marketing purposes. That's why S1 was overpowered but clumsy monster. When Piech learned about existence of RS002 he ordered all prototypes to be destroyed. Gumpert destroyed two cars but kept the third one hidden for two decades before bringing it on public. Now it's one of the most valuable prototypes...
Revman, sorry for hijacking Your thread :p
On the web page macebig posted few days ago is also the history of group S.
https://rallygroupbshrine.org/group-s/group-s-history/
Lower on the page is a “short lived rumour” of the group X.
Another story about group S
http://www.racecar-engineering.com/a...lying-group-s/
I knew I had something in my favourites about group S and I found this. I had not read it my selves so had to take some time to read it. It’s related to same story Mirek told about. Funny story (don’t tell the boss).:)
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threa...y-cars.181687/
In 1990 there was also rumours, or was what said of it, it was more than a rumour, of a new group called R or RR as it was called in another context. It was supposed to start at the beginning of 1994 but on the second half of the year the group R got resistance from manufactures, drivers and organizers whom opinion was that group A cars are enough rally cars and it was buried at the end of 1990.
In 1990 the group A cars had nice power figures so maybe the drivers was afraid the new group would give them some pussy machinery.
A question about Poland.....As I understand it, Ogier called for his gravel crew to asses the conditions before the start of at least one of the days when others did not. Is this correct? Is this what makes him special? Why wouldn't others do the same?
Related question....Is the gravel crew the same as the weather crew? Kind of heard both terms thrown around.
Weather crew just walks on the stage and measures the temperature of the road and sees the weather condition for tyre selection and setup choices. Gravel crew drives through the stage before the competitors and reports changes in road condition for pace note additions. Allowed now only in tarmac events.Quote:
Originally Posted by Revman
Weather crew can be basically anyone who is on stage and is in contact with the team. Even I was few times while I was basically just a spectator.
Thank you. Why wouldn't WRC allow gravel crews for gravel/snow, etc.?Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
Because it's not very helpful. On gravel or snow You always have somewhat slippery conditions and those further change with more and more cars passing (grip usually first getting better but than ruts starting to appear etc.).
On tarmac it's very different. There is very high level of grip where there is clean asphalt but sudden changes with some dirt, water etc. make it tricky and sometimes dangerous. That's why rules allow gravel crews on asphalt events.
Thank you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
I forgot to mention where the gravel crew is the most important - Monte Carlo (it's also asphalt event per official classification). There they are used foremost to locate icy patches, especially black ice. Monte Carlo is the most tricky event in terms of conditions of all.
It's expensive.Quote:
Originally Posted by Revman
Probably the event where the whole gravel/ice crew tradition has started fromQuote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
Quick question about driving technique.....
The announcers on WRC Plus said that before a driver jumps they dab the brakes to get the nose to stay down. Truth?
yes at highspeed jumps.
Thank you.Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
And even more so with older cars with less advanced suspension. Mikko Hirvonen says that with the current cars you can go mostly flat out.Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
Thank you.Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
And of course, apart from the above stated issues with unsettling the cars over the jumps, you also have the obvious problem of not propelling the car forward as the wheels are in the air. It's a fine balancing act though, brakes before jump vs time lost in the air. Actually to put some numbers on this - at 200kph, the air drag on a current WRC car would cause around 0.2g braking and this is if the car flies straight ahead, which very often isn't the case with all sorts of pitch and yaw attitudes possible.
Wouldn't the car's natural tendency to be rotate forward anyway? So why the need to set the nose? Or, as you said, it's a balancing act......A bit of braking, a bit of throttle....Is the goal to land as quickly as possible given the braking while in the air? Fascinating. Thank you.Quote:
Originally Posted by NickRally
Depends on the jump. Some of the bigger ones the drivers see how far they can jump and there's records for who did the longest one, though it's just for fun. Probably not as fun for the guy who tweaks the suspension.Quote:
Originally Posted by Revman
The car would generally try to tilt forward because it has an engine in front, but in high speed jump the aero will have a significant role. The huge back wings can push the butt down, tilting the nose up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Revman