BBC vs Sky - The Story so Far

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

In which case, the best option is to find a solution which suits both, which I'm sure can be done. To do otherwise strikes me as utterly counter-intuitive.

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You'd think so, wouldn't you? But here's a quick example of money trumping sense: F1 fans at the track will no longer have access to FanVision (those portable screens with live timing and various streams like onboard cameras) after the company failed to agree terms with FOM. Now obviously there are two sides to the story, but clearly a compromise couldn't be reached so it'll be fans who suffer. I fear the same will happen with broadcast rights.

Linky to story: FanVision absent from Formula 1 in 2013 - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com

Just a thought — I wonder whether one soon-to-be broadcaster, namely BT, may in future decide to enter into the F1 coverage equation?

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

Just a thought — I wonder whether one soon-to-be broadcaster, namely BT, may in future decide to enter into the F1 coverage equation?

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They're an interesting case. They seem to be buying up rights like there's no tomorrow, and clearly have big ambitions and the financial muscle to back it up.

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Originally Posted by henners88

They were unwilling to drop the price to keep F1 on FTA television in the UK.

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Why should it be kept low if there's a bidding war?

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Originally Posted by henners88

It depends if they want the quick buck or the quality of delivery to be kept at a higher standard of course. From a business perspective they are going to take whatever broadcaster offers the most money which is what they did, but it could have been kept on FTA if CVC had wanted it to. In hindsight they have their money, but neither Sky or the BBC offer anything as good as we had between 2009 and 2011 right now. The fans have lost out, some more than others.

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I have repeatedly pointed out on this thread that the deal was not about money.

Ch4 matched Sky's bid.

BBC played kingmaker. They didn't want it going to a rival FTA channel because they know they will be severely compromised at the next round of bidding.

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Originally Posted by henners88

We don't know how much CVC influenced the final outcome and it wasn't long ago the BBC were vocal on the fact (their opinion) the decision to deal with Sky was not solely down to them.

If it was completely down to the BBC then it makes you wonder how they were given so much power with such an important decision? Bernie and his muppets have always had such an iron fisted approach to TV rights and squeezing broadcasters yet when this deal was done they claim to have left the BBC to decide who was to broadcast Formula One in the UK for the next 5 years. Strange indeed. It was such a change to what had gone before by slashing half the live races in favour of a poorly watched satellite channel getting all the coverage yet Bernie was fine with it and claimed not to have been involved.

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Because it was a good way of getting an initial 'foot in the door' with Sky?

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Originally Posted by henners88

We don't know how much CVC influenced the final outcome and it wasn't long ago the BBC were vocal on the fact (their opinion) the decision to deal with Sky was not solely down to them.

If it was completely down to the BBC then it makes you wonder how they were given so much power with such an important decision? Bernie and his muppets have always had such an iron fisted approach to TV rights and squeezing broadcasters yet when this deal was done they claim to have left the BBC to decide who was to broadcast Formula One in the UK for the next 5 years. Strange indeed. It was such a change to what had gone before by slashing half the live races in favour of a poorly watched satellite channel getting all the coverage yet Bernie was fine with it and claimed not to have been involved. I believe the BBC approached broadcasters but I don't believe they had the final say.

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This is what Martin Turner, executive producer of F1 HD, had to say:

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"The BBC came to us. We didn’t go to the BBC and we didn’t go to Formula One"

"The BBC was under a lot of pressure with budgets, and they felt that this was a way they could keep Formula One on the BBC in some form or another. The contract could have gone a different way. They could have asked to be relieved of the contract and they [Formula One] could’ve put it out to terrestrial bidders and not involved us."

Sky F1 HD: The BBC came to us to save its Formula One rights - Pocket-lint

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BBC backed Sky's bid with their £15m top up.

BBC made no comment on the actual deal says it all. Even Bernie was strangely open about the whole deal:

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But Ecclestone revealed: “They [The BBC] had a contract in force already, from 2012 all the way through to 2014.

“They got to grips with Sky themselves. I spoke with ITV too, and came up with the same problem as Channel 4 had. We had a contract with the BBC which didn’t run out until 2014.

“We couldn’t very well do a deal with other people for them to start doing something next year, because we had that contract.

“Other broadcasters wouldn’t want to wait until 2014 to decide what they wanted to pay.”

The F1 supremo believes the BBC – led by Director of Sport Barbara Slater – were looking to make savings in the region of £25million a year.

They wanted to renegotiate their broadcasting rights into a shared deal with another network, but simply didn’t want to share the sport with a terrestrial rival.

Asked whether the BBC “held all the cards” over the new deal, he added: “Yes, absolutely. If they [Channel 4] had said they wanted to sign a contract today to start broadcasting for £45m a year, then we would have probably done it.

“But that’s the problem. We couldn’t deal with them, even if they had wanted to.”

Formula One supremo Bernie Ecclestone: My hands were tied over BBC/Sky deal - Mirror Online

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In my opinion, Sky Sports F1 have done an amazing job this year, and with their second year coming up, their coverage can only go from strength to strength. Damon, Johnny and Simon seem to have finally gelled, whereas the Sky Pad seems to be working good as well. Also Ted Kravitz is superb, so really thinking this year will see another level in their coverage.

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Just a thought — I wonder whether one soon-to-be broadcaster, namely BT, may in future decide to enter into the F1 coverage equation?

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Who knows with this, but once Sky get their hands on a sport, it is excruciatingly hard to prize it off their hands. Maybe a return for Jake Humphrey if ever it went to BT? ;)

Its a joke the BBC put the highlights on so late at night when I first heard about the deal I was told the BBC could show highlights straight after the race has finished. A few more years of this and it wont help to maintain the popularity of the sport in the UK. Even Luca di Montezemolo sounded a bit cheesed off by it all and even hinted it was time for Bernie to go in a recent interview I read

I have put this here and in the Launch Thread. I no some dont have access, but just for info, Sky F1 will begins its new season programming over the next week. Featuring an Interview with Lewis Hamilton, Launches covereded and reporting from the Pre Season Tests. Although not as I had hoped.

I hoped as cameras tend to be there anyway, Sky F1 might just give us that feed. Oh well. http://www1.skysports.com/formula-1/...at-s-coming-up-

The final test will be live on Sky: Sky Sports to show final Formula 1 test live in 3D - Grapevine - F1 - AUTOSPORT.com

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Originally Posted by RS

The final test will be live on Sky: Sky Sports to show final Formula 1 test live in 3D - Grapevine - F1 - AUTOSPORT.com

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Yeah that news was being spread all over twitter since yesterday and I hope the BBC don't go down the 3D route any time soon. The sooner 3D dies the better as far as I am concerned.

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Originally Posted by RS

The final test will be live on Sky:

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Fantastic, Sky really bring something extra to F1 coverage well done
Don't particulary care for 3D but it will be available in 2D too

Good Move. Afterall with a whole Channel for F1 and fairly expensive service, this is the extra coverage that gets people interested. Should be good. Just a shame they havent taken the decision earlier and for all 3 tests.

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Originally Posted by aki13

Good Move. Afterall with a whole Channel for F1 and fairly expensive service, this is the extra coverage that gets people interested. Should be good. Just a shame they havent taken the decision earlier and for all 3 tests.

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That's the thing, with the amount of money it costs to get this supposed wonderful channel, you'd have expected this to have been introduced earlier. Plus its not complete coverage of the final test, its only the last 2 hours broadcast live. I'll be honest I don't watch many practise sessions during the season as I find them intensely boring, so I'm happy with highlights and written articles when it comes to testing. Its nice for you guys to have the option though.

Testing is pretty mind numbing to watch, but the evening round ups and Ted's Notebooks have been excellent viewing.

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Originally Posted by Dave B

Testing is pretty mind numbing to watch, but the evening round ups and Ted's Notebooks have been excellent viewing.

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He loves his monkey seats doesn't he.

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Originally Posted by Dave B

Testing is pretty mind numbing to watch, but the evening round ups and Ted's Notebooks have been excellent viewing.

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Thing is testing never got any coverage until Sky got involved.
I like the evening round ups as well.
Now the Beeb is even forced to pay attention to testing where before they completely ignored it

The BBC have provided live text and been present at testing since they took over the coverage in 2009. They haven't completely ignored it in the past. I don't feel they are doing any more now than they have ever done. Annoying I don't think they are being 'forced' to do anything right now, I wish they were taking note of sky in situations like this. The truth is the Beeb know they are the primary broadcaster reaching 80% of British fans, so they know they don't have to put as much effort in for their return.

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Originally Posted by henners88

I don't feel they are doing any more now than they have ever done.

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Dream on.......
We never saw coverage like last week with Suzi Perry trackside at test #1
Sky is pushing plain old Beeb and me like :D

Fair enough 'bro', we can agree to disagree on that one.

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Originally Posted by henners88

Fair enough 'bro', we can agree to disagree on that one.

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There's nothing to disagree on 'bro'
BBC never had any coverage of pre-season testing until Sky took over

The news channel often did a brief round up as part of Sportsday, but nothing like Sky have at the moment.

Sent from my monkey seat using a helmet.

My stance on this again, is that the BBC always covered testing be it through 'live text' or video's on their website, but they have never covered it to the extent Sky are now.

My previous comments were in relation to the claim the BBC completely 'ignored' testing when we know that is not the case. Either way testing is testing and there is enough information out there for any fan to get what they want whether its on TV or not.

Yes it has been good etc, but with the money that a subscriber pays for Sky Sports F1, surely the testing coverage should be expected.

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Originally Posted by acescribe

Yes it has been good etc, but with the money that a subscriber pays for Sky Sports F1, surely the testing coverage should be expected.

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This is true, plus they have a dedicated F1 channel, the only reason they don't have live coverage of the tests is that FOM don't send their cameras and production crew to them! wouldnt expect anything less to be honest, the coverage of the car launches was also pretty decent on Sky. To be honest I like both the Beeb and Sky's coverage of F1, but for sheer quality & completeness Sky's coverage takes a lot of beating IMHO.

This goes some way to answer why the sport went on a pay channel. Italy has also lost half its coverage to Sky for 2013. The teams are in financial trouble and somebody has to pay for it. Hopefully interest will dwindle and the sport will continue to slip further in to financial decline. I think in years to come the sport will be forced to seek this interest back and they'll realise bums on seats and popularity in where the long term money comes from rather than the quick buck.

BBC Sport - Formula 1 teams 'are in survival mode', says Whitmarsh

But moving to a pay channel will only make things worse for the teams. They claim the main reason is that sponsorship money is down. Well in order to get sponsorship up you need people watching the races, as many as you can possibly get.

F1 is different from football and the same model cannot be applied here.

I think that's why it'll go this route for a few years and then the reality will come to the surface. In Italy the passion for F1 is high and with it now going the same way it has done in the UK, I think we'll see a similar decline in viewer-ship there too. Sponsors aren't going to want to pay full price to the teams if they know some live races are only going to attract 800k viewers. Initially teams like McLaren were dead against the switch to Sky and sought assurance full coverage would remain on the Beeb even if it was delayed somewhat. This opinion quickly changed when they realised they would each get a little bit more money through the new broadcaster and suddenly the number of fans watching didn't seem to matter. I think that's short sighted and hopefully they'll realise dumping 3m of their audience wasn't great for the long term.

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Originally Posted by Mark

But moving to a pay channel will only make things worse for the teams. They claim the main reason is that sponsorship money is down. Well in order to get sponsorship up you need people watching the races, as many as you can possibly get.

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A few million less viewers in the UK and potentially a few million less in Italy will hardly affect a (potential) global sponsor's decision to get involved in F1 or not.
Sponsor money will become easier to come by once the economy bounces back.

Whitmarsh just wants a bigger slice of CVC's pie for the teams hence that article.
Money that predominantly comes from selling TV rights such as the very lucrative deals with Sky.

Pay TV and/or Pay per View for live sports and highlights or re-runs Free to Air is what the future holds for sports like F1 imo

A few million in the UK a few million elsewhere. It all adds up. Before you know it you are IndyCar!

Depends how lucrative pay tv is.

I surprised to find that F1 which is w global sport trumped by the NFL via tv money.

Amazingly, the move to pay TV has resulted in a decline in viewer numbers! I guess no one saw this coming?? :rolleyes:

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UK coverage was split for the first time between the BBC and pay-TV broadcaster BSkyB in 2012, which led to viewing figures falling by 3.8 million to 28.6 million.

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Formula One TV viewing hits the skids | Media | guardian.co.uk

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Originally Posted by christophulus

Amazingly, the move to pay TV has resulted in a decline in viewer numbers! I guess no one saw this coming?? :rolleyes:

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I think the relatively limited decline in UK viewer numbers was always anticipated.
The important part of the article is this:

"However, it isn't all bad news for the teams. For the first time this year they will receive 63% of F1's total profits as prize money, meaning that they also benefit from the increased money brought in from TV rights sales. The deal with the BBC and Sky is understood to be worth $100m annually – a 25% boost on the price of the previous free-to-air-only coverage."

Kching $$$$
and that is what counts bottom line for the teams

I think Tamb is right for once. All teams look to the bottom line in F1 and anyone that thinks there is a noble purist team fighting for the rights of the common fan is living in cuckoo land.

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Originally Posted by Knock-on

I think Tamb is right for once.

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:eek: What are you saying about Natalie?

"'She's" no Lady ;)

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Originally Posted by Knock-on

I think Tamb is right for once. All teams look to the bottom line in F1 and anyone that thinks there is a noble purist team fighting for the rights of the common fan is living in cuckoo land.

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I think we all hope we count as fans but the reality is the teams don't do anything for the fans. This is why I enjoy stories like this and hope the sport drops in popularity, the sooner the better. It's in need of a wake up call before it completely sells out. The only losers in this are Sky for paying so much money for the coverage and only attracting a 4th of what they were expecting in terms of viewership.

I made myself unpopular with a BBC commentator recently when I said I preferred the indepth coverage on Sky. I think the Beebs coverage is slightly better quality because of the presenters but Sky offer a lot more.

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Originally Posted by Mark

A few million in the UK a few million elsewhere. It all adds up. Before you know it you are IndyCar!

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Exactly.