Sutil will stand trial in a German court later this month

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10th February 2012, 14:29
ArrowsFA1

An [Edited] Theory

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bagwan

This must mean...
This begs the question...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bagwan

So , as presumably...
Surely , cowardice implies...
It must mean one of two things...
Could it be...
If it was pressure...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bagwan

He seems to be saying...?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bagwan

Is this , perhaps...
Or , was it...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bagwan

Hard to imagine...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bagwan

This seems pretty curious...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bagwan

My read on this...
...the seemingly most logical read on it , we should be able to conclude...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bagwan

Isn't it more likely...
Perhaps this was really the issue...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bagwan

There simply must be more behind this...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bagwan

To speculate further...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bagwan

You know , this is all just a theory...

:s mokin:
10th February 2012, 14:40
Dave B

Exactly, Arrows.
10th February 2012, 14:42
Bagwan

Impressive , Arrows .
That must have taken some time .

Good to know you passionately support your countryman .
10th February 2012, 14:52
SGWilko

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

:s mokin:

I would speculate that the conclusion one might draw from such a theory is that whilst, maybe, he may have been indecisive, now it appears, on the face of it, that a case of simply not being sure is afoot......

Perhaps. ;)
10th February 2012, 15:03
Bagwan

Pile on , boys .
I can take it .

You can call it officially over if Hamilton isn't called in to testify for his former friend .
10th February 2012, 15:06
SGWilko

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bagwan

Pile on , boys .
I can take it .

You can call it officially over if Hamilton isn't called in to testify for his former friend .

I'm quite sure he'll be called again, and if he is officially sommonsed [sic] he will be required to attend.

I thought that the Sutils were sure their case was solid given the CCTV footage. And if the CCTV was so conclusive, you'd hazard a guess that it'd show where witnesses were in relation to the 'event'..........

Perhaps their interpretation of events, and that of the judge, differed?????
10th February 2012, 15:10
ArrowsFA1

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bagwan

Good to know you passionately support your countryman.

Nothing to do with supporting anyone Bagwan, least of all a countryman. Last time I checked a Welshman isn't involved :p :

On a fundamental point of justice I simply disagree with a fabricated theory being concocted on the basis of 'this is what we know but what if...' in order to implicate someone.
10th February 2012, 15:12
SGWilko

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

Nothing to do with supporting anyone Bagwan, least of all a countryman. Last time I checked a Welshman isn't involved :p :

On a fundamental point of justice I simply disagree with a fabricated theory being concocted on the basis of 'this is what we know but what if...' in order to implicate someone.

Aaahh, so, you're Welsh then, is it?

Tidy!

Stereotyping a speciality.
10th February 2012, 15:46
ArrowsFA1

:D
10th February 2012, 18:42
Bagwan

Quote:

Originally Posted by SGWilko

I'm quite sure he'll be called again, and if he is officially sommonsed [sic] he will be required to attend.

I thought that the Sutils were sure their case was solid given the CCTV footage. And if the CCTV was so conclusive, you'd hazard a guess that it'd show where witnesses were in relation to the 'event'..........

Perhaps their interpretation of events, and that of the judge, differed?????

All entirely plausable .

We'll see .
10th February 2012, 21:59
Bagwan

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

Nothing to do with supporting anyone Bagwan, least of all a countryman. Last time I checked a Welshman isn't involved :p :

On a fundamental point of justice I simply disagree with a fabricated theory being concocted on the basis of 'this is what we know but what if...' in order to implicate someone.

You all look alike to me . Hee hee .
Sorry for the unintentional fox-paw , calling you English , of all things .

I should have worded it "neighbouring countryman" .

I happen to think that a small lie in the wrong place might be at the bottom of why the comments from two individuals don't seem to match with the situation .
I simply have explained why the theory fits the scenario present .

We should find out soon if he will present , and if he is , maybe we'll find out why he wasn't there , or indeed , whether his testimony will have any bearing at all .
10th February 2012, 23:16
CNR

so it will come back to bite him
Renault F1 owner suing Adrian Sutil over Shanghai nightclub brawl

Quote:

Adrian Sutil can kiss his chances of ever driving for the Renault F1 team goodbye. Lewis Hamilton too, from the looks of things. At least as long as its owned by Genii Capital.

pitpass - Rumours swirl around Sutil nightclub brawl

Sutil regrets altercation in Chinese nightclub

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Hamilton wasn't involved in the altercation and was rushed from the scene by his bodyguard. Sutil shortly followed.

Motor Racing Formula One driver Sutil accused of assault - Channel NewsAsia

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Mr Lux reserves the right to pursue others indirectly involved in the incident at a later date.

2+2 = lewis
11th February 2012, 09:41
ArrowsFA1

Nice links CNR. All from May 2011 :p
11th February 2012, 11:08
CNR

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

Nice links CNR. All from May 2011 :p

more chance of it being true not long after it happened
11th February 2012, 12:38
ArrowsFA1

Quote:

Originally Posted by CNR

more chance of it being true not long after it happened

Of what being true? Given that there has already been a court case, what fresh allegation are you making?
11th February 2012, 12:51
CNR

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

Of what being true? Given that there has already been a court case, what fresh allegation are you making?

Mr Lux reserves the right to pursue others indirectly involved in the incident at a later date.
11th February 2012, 14:26
Bagwan

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

Of what being true? Given that there has already been a court case, what fresh allegation are you making?

Hold on , Arrows .
Would this be a source of the pressure that Lewis may have been under to not show up ?

Could this explain the choice of the words used by the Sutils , in reference to Lewis being afraid of speaking up so as not to upset Lux further , ending up with a law suit , himself ?

This theory does seem to fit as well , as not wanting to stand up to Lux could evoke the same sort of response .
It fits with the reported conversation that they had before the incident , where Lux was seemingly "pulling rank" on Sutil , with his retort "Don't you know I'm an F1 team owner " .

With a fresh contract in the works , neither the lie theory , or this pressure theory , should be written off entirely .
Either could be the answer .
11th February 2012, 19:02
ArrowsFA1

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bagwan

...neither the lie theory , or this pressure theory , should be written off entirely.

Good luck with that :s mokin:
11th February 2012, 19:46
f1bettings

I am confused. I read Sutil did attack or is there video to suggest this didn't happen? This is the first I read otherwise but it would explain why the case is dragging on so long and not being handled swiftly.
11th February 2012, 19:50
Bagwan

Thanks .
11th February 2012, 21:33
BDunnell

Quote:

Originally Posted by CNR

more chance of it being true not long after it happened

I hope you never end up on a jury. Come to think of it, I hope an awful lot of people never end up on a jury.
11th February 2012, 21:34
BDunnell

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bagwan

Hold on , Arrows .
Would this be a source of the pressure that Lewis may have been under to not show up ?

Could this explain the choice of the words used by the Sutils , in reference to Lewis being afraid of speaking up so as not to upset Lux further , ending up with a law suit , himself ?

This theory does seem to fit as well , as not wanting to stand up to Lux could evoke the same sort of response .
It fits with the reported conversation that they had before the incident , where Lux was seemingly "pulling rank" on Sutil , with his retort "Don't you know I'm an F1 team owner " .

With a fresh contract in the works , neither the lie theory , or this pressure theory , should be written off entirely .
Either could be the answer .

And why do you care?
11th February 2012, 23:34
Bagwan

Quote:

Originally Posted by BDunnell

And why do you care?

I'm interested in what makes all these guys tick , as they say .

Does it matter why ?
I've followed this sport for a long time now .
The drama that goes on in the background often finds it's way onto the track , and it's good to know some of those details when watching these guys race .

At the centre of this is the extreme difference between the bravery of an F1 driver of Lewis's calibre(ie-HIGH) , and the word he was called .
It doesn't fit .
It's a mystery at this point .

I like a good mystery .
At this point in the story , I happen to think the butler was innocent .

Why do you care why I care ?
12th February 2012, 09:05
ArrowsFA1

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bagwan

I'm interested in what makes all these guys tick...

Really? More than 40 posts written in a thread about Adrian Sutil's trial and you have shown little or no interest in Adrian Sutil, his actions or responsibility for what happened.
12th February 2012, 14:32
Bagwan

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

Really? More than 40 posts written in a thread about Adrian Sutil's trial and you have shown little or no interest in Adrian Sutil, his actions or responsibility for what happened.

Yeah , really .

This is all about his responsibility for what happened .
It's what the appeal is about .

It's not about whether he did it .
It's about whether the punishment fits the crime .

Like I've stated earlier in this thread , I don't think Adrian's arms are long enough for him to have been the only aggressor in the incident .

Adam Cooper , having seen the CCTV footage , didn't feel the punishment fit the crime either .

The Sutils being as upset as they seem doesn't fit either .

2+2 = ?
12th February 2012, 15:08
wedge

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bagwan

I'm interested in what makes all these guys tick , as they say .

Does it matter why ?
I've followed this sport for a long time now .
The drama that goes on in the background often finds it's way onto the track , and it's good to know some of those details when watching these guys race .

At the centre of this is the extreme difference between the bravery of an F1 driver of Lewis's calibre(ie-HIGH) , and the word he was called .
It doesn't fit .
It's a mystery at this point .

I like a good mystery .
At this point in the story , I happen to think the butler was innocent .

Why do you care why I care ?

OK, OK, the cat's out the bag.

It was the impending end of a bro-mance with Sutil that was Hammy's downfall last year. And it was all of Lady Macbeth/Nicole's fault!
12th February 2012, 17:20
Bagwan

Quote:

Originally Posted by wedge

OK, OK, the cat's out the bag.

It was the impending end of a bro-mance with Sutil that was Hammy's downfall last year. And it was all of Lady Macbeth/Nicole's fault!

So , that must mean that he and Nicole are getting married the day of the appeal that he's booked in to testify , and that's why he can't appear !

How on earth did you find this out , Wedge ?

By the way , I have three black cats , and all of them are in right now , just for the record .
12th February 2012, 17:36
ioan

Let's say I'm impressed how Hamilton's die hard fans are against him being seen as fishy after what he previously did both on and off the track.
I'm also pretty sure Hamy will shoot himself in the foot again pretty soon and all his die hard fans will have another opportunity to show their dedication to cleaning his image.

Meanwhile I find it difficult to digest that people care less about having someone on the brink of having his life destroyed then the image of a guy with Lewis' record vs truth.
Just my opinion, you can shoot now. :D

PS: All I care about is to have the justice served with full knowledge of all the events from all those involved.
12th February 2012, 18:53
BDunnell

Quote:

Originally Posted by ioan

Let's say I'm impressed how Hamilton's die hard fans are against him being seen as fishy after what he previously did both on and off the track.
I'm also pretty sure Hamy will shoot himself in the foot again pretty soon and all his die hard fans will have another opportunity to show their dedication to cleaning his image.

Meanwhile I find it difficult to digest that people care less about having someone on the brink of having his life destroyed then the image of a guy with Lewis' record vs truth.
Just my opinion, you can shoot now. :D

PS: All I care about is to have the justice served with full knowledge of all the events from all those involved.

Leave out the sanctimonious claptrap, ioan. You have no knowledge of what happened; therefore, why insinuate that someone was involved who may very well not have been? Unless you are privy to information withheld from the rest of us, you are as utterly ignorant on the matter as anyone else who didn't see the incident. In no way can you suggest otherwise.
13th February 2012, 08:48
ArrowsFA1

Quote:

Originally Posted by ioan

All I care about is to have the justice served with full knowledge of all the events from all those involved.

The rest of your post makes that crystal clear :p
13th February 2012, 17:23
Tazio

I'm late to this conversation but here is my two cents:
Before the hearing everything I read said that Sutil was going to get a one year suspended sentence. He ended up getting one and a half. None of us know what Hamilton saw or didn't see. I don't know how these things work in Germany, but in the US if a material witness is given a summons and in advance replies that he can't make it on that date the court will grant a continuance. If he just refuses to show up without getting permission he is held in contemt of court. I refuse to take the scenario any further than that. I am just as far in the dark as everyone else.
13th February 2012, 22:16
ioan

Quote:

Originally Posted by BDunnell

Leave out the sanctimonious claptrap, ioan. You have no knowledge of what happened;

That's two of us then, at least.
13th February 2012, 22:22
ioan

Quote:

Originally Posted by henners88

I think considering the lack of information here I would say this debate has been pretty civil. You may laugh at Hamilton fans defending him and the lengths 'we' go to, but are you not doing the same with the little info you have in order to make false negative suggestions? Hmmm. It never fails to amuse me how you continually use some of Hamilton's less appealing incidents in the past when attempting to justify a weak suggestion, but on the other hand support argueably the most unsporting driver the sport has ever seen yourself. Just my opinion me old fruit.

Sent from my HTC Incredible S using Tapatalk

Did I imply anything else then Lewis having a murky past? Do you disagree on me saying that he didn't always walk the line?
I never said that the Sutil case was handled right or wrong, just that it is not as obvious as the Hamy brigade wants to paint it.

Even journo's who claim to have seen the evidence are having divided opinions on this case, so why can't we also have different opinions.
I don't think that falling into one extreme or the other is the way to go, why not try to see a bit of both sides?
13th February 2012, 22:54
Tazio

Quote:

Originally Posted by henners88

Welcome back ;)

Thanks Bro. :cool:
14th February 2012, 05:16
CNR

please explain?
if lewis was not that close to the see the attack glassing fight or whatever you would like to call it
WHY THIS ? Hamilton wasn't involved in the altercation and was rushed from the scene by his bodyguard. Sutil shortly followed.
14th February 2012, 06:27
pino

Quote:

Originally Posted by CNR

please explain?
if lewis was not that close to the see the attack glassing fight or whatever you would like to call it
WHY THIS ? Hamilton wasn't involved in the altercation and was rushed from the scene by his bodyguard. Sutil shortly followed.

Please stop using bold letters thank you !
14th February 2012, 14:47
Tazio

Quote:

Originally Posted by CNR

please explain?
if lewis was not that close to the see the attack glassing fight or whatever you would like to call it
WHY THIS ? Hamilton wasn't involved in the altercation and was rushed from the scene by his bodyguard. Sutil shortly followed.

The first thing that comes to mind is to get the hell out of their before the paparazzi show up. Being rushed out of the joint means what? It is a little vague. Did they sprint, trot, Jog, or just walk away leaving expeditiously? Are you suggesting Hamilton wouldn't be able to get up and walk away without his body guard? I wasn't there so I can only offer the simplest opinion. It may come down to Lewis just being plain pissed off that his friend ruined an otherwise enjoyable celebration for which he was the guest of honor by not being able to hold his liquor. We don’t know. The members on this forum know I'm a Ferrari guy that has huge respect for Alonso, but my appreciation of F1s pilots is not mutually exclusive, in fact I admire almost all of them. That is not the type of scene I'd want to hang out at if I was a high profile athlete. It's would just be worse publicity than I would want, especially if there would be nothing accomplished by staying. All I have offered is a possible scenario. As I already stated I’m not in any position to speak with authority about the specifics earlier in this thread.

What do you think it means? You are certainly entitled to your opinion.
14th February 2012, 15:52
Mia 01

Was it not so that Lewis sat right beside Sutil when the matter happened?
14th February 2012, 17:46
ioan

Quote:

Originally Posted by henners88

I agree Lewis does not have a squeaky clean past in all aspects but that has little relevance in this instance. I have also not read any articles from journalists who have seen evidence that suggest Lewis was involved or had seen anything. Adam Cooper tweeted that he had seen the CCTV footage and that Mr Lux was not as innocent as had been portrayed but he didn't suggest Lewis was involved or a key witness. Lewis was removed from the scene by bodyguards which is understandable due to the nature of the incident. With a volatile atmosphere in the club I think maybe a few others were maybe ushered away too. I'm not suggesting Lewis saw nothing and I'm not suggesting he did, as I don't know, but we have his word at the moment. Sutil hasn't claimed Lewis saw anything either and the details are all a bit vague. Of course you're entitled to your opinion, but I can't help but think you have made your mind up before any evidence has surfaced. I have to admire your consistency though.

Sent from my HTC Incredible S using Tapatalk

Who said Lewis was involved?
All we said is that he was present and would like to hear his version of the events instead of a stern 'didn't see it'.
14th February 2012, 18:42
ArrowsFA1

Quote:

Originally Posted by ioan

All we said is that he was present and would like to hear his version of the events instead of a stern 'didn't see it'.

Have you read the statement made to the court? If, as I think it's safe to assume, not how do you know its content let alone its tone?

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