The year has just begun, and even here on the Forem we already read a lot of bad news in different threads.
And many well-known board members, we almost never see them here and thy never write something again?
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The year has just begun, and even here on the Forem we already read a lot of bad news in different threads.
And many well-known board members, we almost never see them here and thy never write something again?
At the moment there is so much 'up in the air' which is causing confusion, etc Why would businesses, sponsors, etc sign up when there is still no word/news on the Global Promoter.
Saying that, in times past, there wasn't a Promoter...and the sport didn't do too badly.
Today there is more bad news, it will not improve following month´s.Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyRAC
I do not understand that many here do not understand what's currently happening in the world.
Something struck me as weird today: why doesn't Rallye Deutchland include a lap (or near lap) of the Nurburgring as a stage? It's only 70km from Trier; I think that if the Nordschleife was the Power Stage, it would be a boost for both rallying and the circuit (which needs all the help it can get). The return of world-class motorsport to the circuit (in addition to the twenty-four hour race) would be a massive boon.
I think that no such average speed limit exists in WRC now. The decision about stage safety is up to FIA stewards.
Yeah, Ouninpohja was cut from Rally Finland for the same reason. But, the 'Ring is a racing circuit, so it's much more controlled than a forestry road. Maybe the FIA would be agreeable.
Ouninpohja was cut half for the reason, not cut from Rally Finland. I think the rule for 130 km/h max average dissappeared already 2-3 years ago, and now it is like Mirek said up to FIA stewards to decide case by case.Quote:
Originally Posted by Prisoner Monkeys
Says here rule was changed in 2004, but not sure
Rally Finland - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Use of "The Ring" might make the WRC cars look very silly. Genearlly they are only geared for around 180km/h maximum. GpN cars could be capable of 210km/h or more and may well beat the WRC cars on the circuit. WRC Teams would not want to homologate different transmissions for a stage used once a year so it isn't going to happen, even though it's a great idea.
WRC cars have higher top speed. The numbers You say are for S2000 (usually 165-190 km/h). Octavia and Fabia WRC had top speed around 200-220 km/h depending on gearing. If I remember right Roman Kresta said his Focus 05 had top speed 217 km/h in NORF and I think in Sweden C4 was capable of something like 230 km/h. I don't know gearing of new cars but I guess the top speed is around 200 km/h.
We had a top speed of between 200 and 205km/h in Finland. I think in Finland the fastest car I have ever seen was Bosse in the 307 with 209...or was it Lindholm with 211?? Anybody remember?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
I think it was 232km/h on Hirvonen's car but don't remember where. Any news, Antony?
And on Nring with a street Evo you have places where you can top 250km/h. So a top spec rally car will be on it`s limiter for a long time there.
Top speed in NORF in old WRC cars was 200-205km/h like someone said and last year in new cars top speed´s was between 178(Mini)-190(Fiesta) if I remember right... So new cars are pit slower than old ones... Fastest car was Juha Salo Mitsu Evo X R4/195km/h... These are radar results from SS2 Laukaa by finnish motorsport magazine Vauhdin Maailma...
Those results were very strange and discussed here. There were some things which were clearly wrong - like Fiesta R2 can't have a higher speed on a straight than S2000 car which is not in RPM limiter.Quote:
Originally Posted by donlorean
I have to check those R2 and S2000 top speeds but those WRC speeds was like I told... That place where they were with radar is 1 km straight and little down hill so every car suppose to be in rev limiter or close... They are measuring those top speeds there every time when that SS is driven...Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
If I remember right... Fabia S2000 doesn't have so short gearbox to have top speed only 164-165. AFAIK the shortest is little over 170 km/h (but I would expect long gearbox at least in works car of Juho - for example in Barum or Ypres they used top speed around 182-184), so either the measurement was wrong or it was not in rpm limiter. In second case the measurement again must be wrong because Fabia not in limiter can't have lesser speed than R2 (something like 172 reported). That is just impossible.
They use calibrated radar so I don't think that measuring was wrong... And like I said, they have done it many years... So I think that there is some other reason like driver/puncture/technical etc... That 172km/h from R2 Fiesta sounds quite right as far as I know... Basically it doesn't matter if top speed is 190 or 205km/h. More important in NORF(and most of the rallies also) is acceleration between 80-150km/h...
Are the last 10 posts in this thread at home?
I agree with Your conclusion about importance of acceleration but still I don't believe those results. Numbers like 165 km/h were there for all top S2000 cars while all top R2 cars had more. That is purely wrong for reasons I already said. It is impossible that all Hänninen, Tänak, Prokop etc. made a mistake in shifting/had puncture etc. in same place and if they all were on rpm limiter, they must have had higher top speed than indicated in the article.Quote:
Originally Posted by donlorean
Sorry...Quote:
Originally Posted by Brother John
@donlorean, Thanks for your answer.Quote:
Originally Posted by donlorean
I hope that in future I can move posts to the correct Thread.
Don't put off to the future what you can do now...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Antony Warmbold
It was Sebastian Lindholm, 211 km/h.
Top speed discussion made earlier.
http://www.motorsportforums.com/wrc/...tml#post959213
I think you are all still too positive for the future of rally if you read all this bad news on different threads here.
I can see it as the start of a big mess this year.
1) Real news on WRC.com???
2) website MC still no publishing of the entry lists!!!
and more and more and more about rallys and drivers on different places here.
Hopefully we get to see a bit this year.
I'm quite certain there will be a solution for both the website and the entrylist soon.
The entrylist isn't there yet just because they're French and too busy drinking wine, and I think the website will be bought by the new promotors (which aren't there yet af course, but something with such importance as a website will be solved quickly I think).
Still, we see currently bad news in the rally world.
Yes I can see still a big mess this year and certainly in the wrc.
It's time for a new start with rallying now.
1. Cancel body kitting - Road car bodywork only
2. No changes to driven wheels - As the road car is sold
3. No changes on engine to add turbo - Only if road car has it
WRC is dead...
Manufacturers avoid the sport like the plague, same ol' cast and story, and now nobody wants to broadcast the events.
Sounds fantastic but unfortunately these times are already gone, I sadly think its forever..... its more expensive for manufacturers and also they aim to promote mass city cars to larger target group than luxury sport models for fans.Quote:
Originally Posted by navtheace
Why have they gone? If that is the rules, we will see the likes of Citroen, M Sport, Subaru/Toyota, Honda, Hyundai/kia, VW see this opportunity to promote what their road cars are.
if the wrc has to go 2WD then so be it.
Lets just see what happens, nothing discussed on here will make a difference.
In group A era tuners could Build car and that was it. Now only works cars are available, why?
as long as WRC is under the governing body of the FIA there is no hope...
When things start to get momentum (VW announcement, mini involvement, Toyota thinking of entering some time ago, Subaru also ) the FIA will do something to hold things back because they want motorsport fans hooked to F1 and their ladyboys...
They turned F1 into a circus where fans refer to drivers with initials, they care about the ladyboy drivers personal life like they are pop stars and turned the public into stupid retarded fanboys fighting who for the ladyboys they support like they are their boyfriends...
the future of WRC is the one the FIA will allow it to be...
Are you mad?!Quote:
Originally Posted by navtheace
What about the excitement of watching a rally live?! I see around here most are worried about TV shows and manufacteur numbers but dont forget this is a sport to be experienced live, we need loud, crazy fast cars.
This would surely be the death of the WRC. Whilst we might mostly agree that the technical freedoms manufacturers have enjoyed have driven the costs too high for most to participate, the sport still needs to be attractive to both watch and compete in.Quote:
Originally Posted by navtheace
Rally cars should look and sound exciting, and they need to go well. Production based categories simply don't do it.
:up: I agree this is the way it needs to go, while Sollit correctly points out we need mentally fast cars on the stages, realistically the costs of building the cars has to come down so we can have more even, close competition, and not another complete domination of the manu championship like citroen in 2010.Quote:
Originally Posted by navtheace
Exactly, nowadays if you want to compete, you have no choice BUT to go to citroen or M sport.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barreis
Lol :DQuote:
Originally Posted by N.O.T
Your first and last comments are correct, the FIA have failed all of us rally fans, and another organiser should be brought in. But who? The fact that the FIA have no competition mean they can do what ever the hell they want with the series, whether its good for the sport or not.
I would say they should stick to F1, but judging by this thread
http://www.motorsportforums.com/f1/1...-going-f1.html
in the F1 section, theyre not exactly happy customers either, thanks to FIA and "supremo" ecclestone.
Well done FIA :mad:
You can bring the costs of the car down without completely throwing the baby out the window. Rallying is about innovation and inventiveness. It is also an exciting form of motor racing and cars should look and sound like racing cars.Quote:
Originally Posted by tfp
Dumb it down to a production category and nobody will come. National series which have gone this way are testament to that.
In reality, do you know that it is the cost of engineering and production of the car which deters manufacturers, or is it the cost of infrastructure, manpower, compliance and logistics which won't reduce regardless of the formula?
What assurances are there that a reduction in the cost of the car will bring a wider entry?
I'm not saying nothing should change, but if you think bland, production based formulae are the panacea you are really on a different planet.
The biggest handicap moneywise is the organisasion, not the cars. I think todays formula is good, but when the main goal is to earn lots of money, then it has to be to much expensive. If FIA really wanted, they could really well make the rules that they have to use one kind of gearbox, and one kind of diffs. But citroen and Ford didn't wan't that, so that's not happen. So citroen, Ford and FIA is the people to blame. It is no problem to make bodykits in fiberglass to a decent price, to the same price as a standard part, it just that simple that noone of the earlier mention want's that! They wanna earn lots of money!
The solution is simple, keep todays formula, skip the homologation rules, and put in some rules how many people that can work in a team and how much single parts can cost. Then its open for private entries to build cars, rebuild existing parts, maintance the car with own solutions, and then still be competitive in sensible costs.
R4 Impreza with 34mm or 36mm would be attractive.Quote:
Originally Posted by sollitt
As would the many FWD turbo petrol cars on the road like Golf's.
Example here of Impreza in USA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVFkGp0e35Q&sns=fb
Taking the rules right back (away from Citroen and M Sport dictating with specialist build cars) will be the best thing for the WRC. Just like GpA did after GpB. Then watch things build nicely.
Do You really believe that making rules back to gr.A days would make manufacturers willing to spent billions on road-going rallycars which with the exception of the two Japanese died all over the planet? The answer is no, sorry. Things have changed.