Do you rate Ogier so slow? If he wouldn't have slowed down before the puncture of Loeb, he would have clearly gone 1st, since Loeb was "cruising".Quote:
Originally Posted by Back-N-Black
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Do you rate Ogier so slow? If he wouldn't have slowed down before the puncture of Loeb, he would have clearly gone 1st, since Loeb was "cruising".Quote:
Originally Posted by Back-N-Black
What you describe is the situation that has established only after the previous contract was signed (July 2010). Which is quite a significant point to consider.Quote:
Originally Posted by N.O.T
If looking back; It's a clear difference from the priority of Ogier this season vs Sordo, or earlier "status" of Ogier. Sordo was always put in position to sweep for Loeb in any leg, and same with Ogier. While this season Ogier is allowed to pull tactics to slot behind Loeb and make the driver leading in points sweep for him.
This type of game is for sure not what Loeb expected when signing earlier non-priority contracts. He always had a sweeper and full team support. Although he may have allowed for it in his contract, he surely did not foresee Quesnel would turn on him like a rat, after all Seb has brought the team. So you can be sure his current contract will protect him against the latest Quesnel agenda in the future. At a minimum it will be a 50/50 share of who takes the sweeping positions.
Of course this may be simpler if the new starting rules are effected, however that can not be guaranteed, so the contract will also cover the possibility of alternative running orders.
There are many comments from the top indicating that current agreement is different from before; World Rally Championship - News - Gales: Loeb staying is hugely significant
"We did a lot of things to make him stay, to make the association last longer. ... We will make sure he feels at ease in the future."
The exact terms one can speculate, but that they protect Loeb more than before, and more than Ogier, looks obvious. And it's Quesnel who can thank himself for it.
This is the first year citroen have ever given equal status to their drivers. In the past, Loeb has always been number one in the team, always had the number 2 drivers sweep for him etc. And if the number two driver diddnt like it, they could walk. And leave the most successful team in the WRC. And its not as if they have a lot of other teams to go to is it:-) Nothing has changed with the results however, this time Loeb uses his experience to come out on top, something which ogier is currently lacking.Quote:
Originally Posted by bretddog
I still havent seen many comments on loeb staying from quesnel. Is he bitter about loebs descision or something?
i really need to move into the star trek universe...is it that fun to make things up than facing the facts ???? I do not remember many rallies in which sordo was ahead of Loeb on gravel to sweep....
i guess the infromation about all these imaginary things comes from the same source that suggested that Loeb blocked Solberg from the official citroen team...
oh well...
That's your problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by N.O.T
Once in a while you can try to shut up when proven wrong, I'm not expecting you ever able to admit a defeat.
Did you expect any less :p :
Has anyone heard any comments from Quesnel about Loebs new contract? It would be interesting to hear his response.
enlighten me thenQuote:
Originally Posted by bretddog
from a quick search Sordo never run in front of Loeb last year intentionally..... only in 1 event (at the end of the season) Loeb was 1 spot belowe sordo...all the other times was either infront or way below due to the fact he cleared the roads....
Enjoy your star trek universe.
i am not always right but i am never wrong...sorry to dissapoint.
Epic N.O.T :D :DQuote:
Originally Posted by N.O.T
Check 2009, 4 lose gravel rallies, Sordo sweeps at least one leg, either day 2 or 3. Check 2010, Ogier sweeps at least one leg, 2 or 3, of 4 or 5 rallies. Whoever was the most appropriate Citroen to sweep, Loeb usually had one in front whenever possible. You don't need to be just 1 position in front to be the sweeper, be serious.Quote:
Originally Posted by N.O.T
yes but most or ALL of these were due to loeb losing time being first on the road and not due to orders...be serious.
Sure.. None other Citroen driver ever imagined they could slow down on day 1 to get a favorable road position and a realistic chance to win. Not until Ogier. I guess he must have an IQ twice the level of his predecessors. Though only after mid-2010 season. Well anyway, it was a great idea when it finally came to him.Quote:
Originally Posted by N.O.T
The fact is you don't ever play tactic unfavorable to your teammate Loeb unless it's clearly communicated you are free to do so. Only one driver got that message.
It's not to take anything away from Loebs talent or genius. But to think that he would have as many victories without this practice is just silly. It has earned him some victories, and at least one or two titles. It's all fair game, this is motorsport.
ok not worth the time anymore....Quote:
Originally Posted by bretddog
Next year its retirment home for your boy and since none is coming from behind we are going to have less and less of such comments as years pass by....
I can wait.
Your such a sad losing creature. Just do yourself a favor and shut up.Quote:
Originally Posted by N.O.T
well, no top driver from Greece ever and it ain't stopping your noncence.....Quote:
Originally Posted by N.O.T
Did you look at the stage times? I am sorry for you.Quote:
Originally Posted by N.O.T
Remember the Citroens have 2:00 mins, approx, to give, a certainly insurmountable time with the number of stages left, at their skill level, unless a problem occurs.
Stage 11 Ogier beats Loeb
1. 2 S. OGIER 6:09.1 0.0 0.0
2. 4 J. LATVALA 6:10.3 +1.2 +1.2
3. 3 M. HIRVONEN 6:12.1 +1.8 +3.0
4. 1 S. LOEB 6:12.6 +0.5 +3.5
Stage 12 Loeb barely beats Mikko and Ogier is barely beaten by Mikko
1. 1 S. LOEB 8:23.8 0.0 0.0
2. 3 M. HIRVONEN 8:25.5 +1.7 +1.7
3. 2 S. OGIER 8:25.9 +0.4 +2.1
4. 4 J. LATVALA 8:26.1 +0.2 +2.3
Stage 13 Less than a second behind Loeb
1. 1 S. LOEB 8:36.5 0.0 0.0
2. 2 S. OGIER 8:36.9 +0.4 +0.4
3. 3 M. HIRVONEN 8:39.9 +3.0 +3.4
4. 37 D. SORDO 8:40.1 +0.2 +3.6
Stage 14 Loeb gets puncture
Compare SS8 and SS12, Bosenberg, Ogier posts almost the same exact time as before supposed team orders are made.
Compare SS9 and SS13, Birkenfelder, Loeb slows again in the afternoon slightly but Ogier stays within less than a second.
Argh, it's premium content so I can't see it!Quote:
Originally Posted by Xsara Fan
not sure that this the way to go. it seems that having to sweep the road is a necessary handicap so that others that are slower have a better chance. how interesting, for us to spectate, is it going to be having the leader get favourable road position each day too? loeb wins by 10 minutes1Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobcat
my fix would rather be that the slowing down in a stage for tactical reasons be penalized. It could be easily determined in my opinion by looking at in car telemetry. not like european football where everytime a player takes a dive, nothing is done but like in american hockey, where diving is always penalized.
add a truly painful penalty, say 4 or 5 minutes, to any driver determined to be sandbagging. like nascar who has as official at each pit stall you can also determine if coming late out of the pits, etc, was done on purpose as well. heck if you are the leader at the beginning of a day and you are late out of the garage then you automatically get the painfull penalty.
There's a thread on this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Back-N-Black
since we are going to have the first 10-15 going reverse, then the top guys (3-5) all get the ideal position. The sweeping stands for the first 5 cars maximum.Quote:
Originally Posted by Back-N-Black
Looks like it's Ogier Vs Quesnel
MaxRally | News | Ogier seeks contract clarification from Citroen
Loeb gave them 7 titles and Ogier gave them 7 wins. I would give advantage to Loeb looking from realistic and human side.
its a copypaste from a Greek forum.source is autosport.com. Bit interesting about the opera thing :D
To briefly contextualise, Sebastien Loeb was leading Rallye Deutschland at the end of day one with Ogier right behind. The pair were told – by visiting Citroen dignitary Jean-Marc Gales – stations would be held.
If you'd arrived from planet wherever and gone to talk to the drivers at the end of the first loop of stages around Trier last Friday, you would have recognised one of the two Citroen drivers as a multiple world champion. But it wouldn't have been Loeb. Despite his immense success and towering record, Loeb remains shorn of the arrogance which often accompanies global domination. Ogier, on the other hand is a stranger to humility.
Citroen's current team principal Olivier Quesnel now finds himself in a slightly awkward position. Loeb, undoubtedly Frequelin's boy from the old regime, has struggled to find the same feeling within the team as when 'Grizzly' had been at the top of the tree. Evidence of this came in Greece earlier in the summer, when Loeb accused Citroen of conspiring to help Ogier against him. Can you imagine him ever levelling that at Frequelin? Precisely. Privately, there have been members of the old guard happy to cast Quesnel and Ogier as co-conspirators in Loeb's downfall. Then, not so privately, there was Frequlin and his opinion. Remember that one? The one where he said Quesnel's head wasn't just big, it was about to explode.
Something had to be done – and Loeb's contract negotiations became a staging post for the myriad internal battles that have plagued Citroen's season. Enter Gales. And some genuine sense of justice. Gales isn't just a big noise in Citroen, he's a member of the management board of PSA Peugeot Citroen. In terms of Peugeot and Citroen, he's the big cheese who decides who gets to decide all the identity of all the other cheeses.
Asked about his man on the ground, he described Quesnel's record as "good". Since Quesnel took charge of the team at the end of 2007, Citroen has not lost a drivers' or manufacturers' world championship title. And Gales describes this 100 per cent record as "good". In his next breath, Gales talks about a symbiotic relationship with Loeb.
The allies who have rallied around the big little man could be bad news for Quesnel and Ogier. With team orders back on the menu and, we're told, in clear contravention of Ogier's contract, the younger of the two Sebastiens is already making noises about jumping ship. Having won a few battles, on the evidence of the views from those at the upper end of the PSA pay-scale, he looks to have lost the war. The political war, that is. Whether or not he'd lose it on the stages is another matter. Right now, Loeb's as fast as he ever was. And you'd have to say, that's fast enough to see off Ogier for the time being.
Interviews with Sebs
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:up:Quote:
Originally Posted by sbrytskyy
interesting speech from Ogier.
Google PYeklada
Or did Citroen gave Loeb 7 titles? If Loeb had signed with subaru or ford in his early years, would he have hold so many records?Quote:
Originally Posted by Barreis
nobody can answer such questions....so we just take for granted only the facts.Quote:
Originally Posted by denkimi
I doubt it, especially if he joined prodrive after 2003 :DQuote:
Originally Posted by denkimi
Somebody has had a serious dressing down by team management I'd say.Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
as expected...and as was predicted by the great prophet also known as captain obvious...
expected from you? Dont think so....Quote:
Originally Posted by N.O.T
2nd epic fail is closed.Quote:
Originally Posted by N.O.T
hope next time to be more carefully about insulting other mates.
you should improve your understanding in english because the thing you posted agrees with what i am saying for long long time now....
2nd epic fail is closed. sorry...
Poor Quesnel no need to cry that's what you get if you have two of the world's fastest and best driver's in the same team and letting them have equal status '2 number 1 drivers.
Actually I read an interesting rumor on WRC.com at the time that suggested that Loeb & Solberg could end up as partners at either Subaru or Citroen after their close battles in 2003/4. I am not sure if there would have been a winner.Quote:
Originally Posted by tfp
Funnily enough a similar rumor was floated for a Loeb Gronholm partnership at Citroen after 2007.
I think that theses rumors about jumping ship are more about creating a buzz than anything tangible.
Thats just asking for trouble :D It would have been interesting, but I'm glad they were in different teams in previous years, it made for lots of exciting battles :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Plan9
Team orders drop Ogier 4 points to give Loeb 1.
Loeb: “He started a bit late to give me a chance to score one point,”
Ogier: “I have team orders and I respected this.” Does this mean the end of your fight for the driver's title? “That's your conclusion.. I have no comment about that.”
Ogier’s frustrations intensified when he slowed again before the finish of the Power Stage to ensure he didn’t take any bonus points away from Loeb, who claimed three extra points for topping the times on the rally-closing test.