Cheers :)Quote:
Originally Posted by 555-04Q2
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Cheers :)Quote:
Originally Posted by 555-04Q2
:beer:
Bravo! I've raced both open and tin tops - even had a car land on my car at Donny in '99 (still got the tyre marks on my skid lid to prove it) and I got back in the car the next day because that's what racing drivers do.Quote:
Originally Posted by 555-04Q2
The risks are known, and whilst those risks should be managed, that is the key word - managed, not eradicated. Both because it is impossible and because its the adrenaline rush is what makes us want to do it in the first place. Take that away and you take away the reason for the sport to exist.
Its one of the reasons all that whinging on the radio about the rain got me so annoyed. 100% guaranteed, if the green flag had waved, they have been flat out, on the limit, giving it the beans. Not one would have parked it and said 'that's too wet.'
I still really don’t understand the purpose of this discussion.
The sport of F1 mandates open cockpit and exposed wheels.
Altering from this mandate changes the formula of the sport similar to other forms of motor racing that are currently available to bother drivers and spectators.
:up: Some people will be unable/unwilling to understand your post. But it is a good one and sums up the point perfectly :up:Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic
How's that any different to when drivers accepted the lack of safety in the '60s?Quote:
Originally Posted by 555-04Q2
I'm not saying that I agree with what Daniel is suggesting, but the arguments against it are generally just too weak. There are a few that have come out and given decent reasons of why covered cockpits aren't the best option, but other than that it's all bull**** trying to hold on to 'tradition' and a lack of anyone saying what actually makes an F1 car an F1 car.
If we had front engined cars with no wings but still open cockpit and open wheel, how would people feel about that?
Anyway as someone that works in the building industry I know that "well they do it so it must be okay" is completely the wrong approach to health & safety. I know chippies that are happy to stand on hop-up steps at the top of a 2 story mobile tower scaffold. I know roofers that will happily work with no edge protection or harness, and the less said about scaffolders the better. None of this means that it's right or that there shouldn't at least be a debate on the subject of elfin safety.
F1 is a long, long, long way safer than it was many years ago, is the racing any less interesting? Do the drivers feel less of a buzz?
Quite simple. As schmenke posted, F1 rules stipulate an open cockpit where the driver needs to get out without having to remove anything but the steering wheel. That is how an F1 car is regulated to be built. If people/drivers feel it is not safe enough, they can join the touring car championship or some other closed cockpit racing formula.Quote:
Originally Posted by barryfullalove
Nail, hit, head.Quote:
Originally Posted by schmenke
/thread
Nail, hit, finger.....aaaarrrrrrrgggggghhhhhhh.Quote:
Originally Posted by X-ecutioner
We agree on something else again, a rare thing :D
But if the sport dictated a goat being strapped on the engine cover? Or a pair of boobs on the nose? If one of the cars turned up with no goat and no boobs is it still an F1 car?Quote:
Originally Posted by schmenke
Rules can be changed if the sport feels they need to be changed.
Barry has hit the nail on the head really, to simply keep it as it is because that is how it was in the past is silly. If Michelin had come in this year and put low profile tyres on big wheels it would have been different but it would still be F1
There is no purpose, the poster Daniel just likes heated discussion and arguments :) .Quote:
Originally Posted by schmenke
F1 has been an open cockpit design for over 60 years now Dan. Why change it?
Well sorry for having an opinion and trying to justify it :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by DexDexter
Because I feel that it's safer? :mark: :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by 555-04Q2
Perhaps you miss my point Daniel.
If a similar motorsport series already existed that mandated goats and boobs why would there be a need to change the formula of F1? Keep F1 as it is and if you fancy goats 'n boobs particpate in the other series.
It would be safer to fit 600cc Diahatsu engines so they don't go fast enough to hurt themselves...
ROTFLMAO.Quote:
Originally Posted by schmenke
:laugh: You had me at goats :laugh:
Well IMHO F1 isn't purely about the cars. It's about the calibre of the field, sure you've got your Buemi's and Algesuari's and so on, but the top drivers are proper top drivers. You also have some of the best tracks in the world, cars which are bloody quick and a well recognised championship.Quote:
Originally Posted by schmenke
It's also not that I like roofs and faired wheels, it's that I feel that this would make things safer without spoiling the racing. If we continue on fatality free then I doubt anything will change of course, but lets say we have a Surtees style accident and a Massa style incident which are both fatal or extremely serious then IMHO there will be only one outcome and I think it's one that should be considered sooner rather than later.
Now that's just silly, cars with 600cc engines are never going to be interesting to watch unless engine technology moves on. Roofs and covered wheels won't lessen the show....Quote:
Originally Posted by 555-04Q2
No more silly than a closed cockpit F1 racer would be. You getting the point now :?: ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
Not to be funny, but you're choosing not to discuss this in a reasonable fashion.Quote:
Originally Posted by 555-04Q2
A small engine like that makes the cars SLOWER which directly means that there is less spectacle.
A roof and wheel fairings would merely make the cars differently, and with the reduction in drag could even make for a better show.
I watch F1 for what it is, not what it could be. If they covered the cockpit and arched the wheels, I promise you that I will be the first to switch off the telly after over 20 years of F1 loyalty and only 4 live races missed in that time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
I think we all agree that safety is the prime consideration when specifying both the sporting and technical regulations of any sport. But a balance has to be achieved between safety and maintaining the essence of the sport. Otherwise F1 would be running 600cc Diahatsus as mentioned, and rugby players would be wearing inflatable sumo suits.
Although I'm sure you're serious, I doubt you would switch off. F1 would still be more or less the same, it would just be slightly different.Quote:
Originally Posted by 555-04Q2
OK let me put it this way. Next race if a wheel comes off and kills a driver as Surtees died and then the race after that someone gets hit in the head in a similar manner to the way Massa did and turns into a vegetable for the rest of their lives then what could F1 do in your opinion to try and lessen this risk? Serious question there.
They do react to these things , though , Daniel .Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
They have two tethers on the wheels now .
When Massa was hit , the crowd went silent , and we all waited with baited breath until we knew he would be OK .
And , even though he had the face of a prize fighter , he was itching hard to get back in the seat .
The cars are designed to be safe , and are very much so , despite open wheels .
But , it's the danger , despite the safety , that draws both the crowd and the fan .
It is the fact that they are open wheel that is a great part of that draw .
Oh FFS, it's like smashing myself in the face with a brick. Did you not actually read what I wrote, or are you being intentionally ignorant?Quote:
Originally Posted by 555-04Q2
Only currently. A few years ago they were regulated to be 3l v10s, does that mean that the current crop aren't real F1 cars? We've had turbos, we've had ground effect, we've had six wheels, we've had double deck diffusers. Are none of these F1 cars? Are all of them F1 cars? The rules are only ever current (even then they change, like we're about to see with blown diffusers). If the 2016 rules state that they should be closed cockpit then it's just another step in the life of the sport.Quote:
That is how an F1 car is regulated to be built
Like I said with the building industry (a point you completely ignored), people always feel that they are safe enough until an accident happens...at which point, in building anyway, someone gets sued. Just because people feel safe, doesn't mean that they are safe.Quote:
If people/drivers feel it is not safe enough
Also like I said before, I don't necessarily believe that we need closed cockpits etc. I just think that people are being stupidly stick in the mud with the replies that Daniel is getting.
I'm dumbfounded at reading that.Quote:
Originally Posted by 555-04Q2
Why is that Miguel?Quote:
Originally Posted by barryfullalove
I too have been watching F1 for 20+ years ( :erm: ) and over the last couple of years the sport(?) has taken a direction that has increasingly depreciated by interest.
Closed cockpits and fendered wheels would simply mean that I would likely switch to different series :mark: .
F1 is far more about the drivers though...people want to see the helmet colours and identify with their 'man'. Now some of that is being lost with the constant helmet redesigns to add in some diamonds for Monaco (gimmick, much?!?) but a coupe loses some that appeal of seeing the hands sawing at the wheel a la Kobayashi.
Barry , there are always two ends to the spectrum , and we always need to find the safest place in between .
A friend of mine who works at the nuke plant nearby mentioned the other day that he had the change a light bulb .
It would have been three steps up the ladder to do it , but it was one too many .
He was required to acquire a zoom boom to do it , which took about half of his day , as it had to be brought from another end of the plant .
He was also required to tie off , and because of this , was put in some danger as a result , by having to lean down to the bulb from the boom very awkwardly .
It took three guys .
One drove the machine .
One lead him through the plant .
And one , to change the bulb .
All the while , without a functioning bulb in place , it was dark for half the day .
The other end of that spectrum isn't your roofer friends , but those cats in Asia who use bamboo for scaffolding .
In F1 we have willing participants .
They are willing to go all the way up the ladder , not just the third step .
To my mind it's the speed and the racing that's important, what the cars look like is an irrelevance to me. Enclosing the car like the Caparo or that Red Bull thing from GT5 doesn't ultimately change the racing, at least not to my mind. And in the end I'm a motorsport fan, if there's motorsport being shown on telly and it's interesting to watch then why would I want to turn off? Especially for something as trivial as a roof.Quote:
Originally Posted by schmenke
As far as I'm concerned switching off from an entertaining series because of such a rule change would be petty in the extreme.
So putting a fighter jet style cockpit on an F1 to reduce the possibility of a driver dying from debris ingress, is your idea of an equivilent to spending 18 man hours to change a lightbulb to prevent someone dying from falling from a step ladder (which apparently happens surprisingly often)?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bagwan
Not exactly .Quote:
Originally Posted by barryfullalove
But , there are issues , like falling off that ladder , that have been anticipated , and dealt with , that have spawned more dangerous situations .
This was a six step ladder . The fact that he was required to go to a different part of the plant to get an alternate tool for the job meant that this specific part of the plant wasn't lit properly , making for a more dangerous situation for half of a day for all those working in the area .
Take more of the F1 driver's vision away and it really doesn't help , does it ?
They lack sufficient view as it is , and complain often that they can't see the front wings .
And front wings have littered every track this year .
I would lobby for a higher driver position , and mandate a bar for protection , but a closed cockpit won't work , in my eyes , as they must race too close to further limit vision .
I believe that adding a cockpit cover would limit vision .
I believe adding one would find more cars upside down or at least crashing heavily as a result .
The best reason I can think of for having one is because you'd need one if you had one .
Serious answer...I would say that would be a tradegy as every serious accident is. But there is a limit to what we can prevent happening. I'm not against improving safety, but there will always be an eliment of danger and the drivers know this. They compete for the thrill of it, danger included. Covering the cockpit for example reduces some safety issues, but could create othr issues such as fire hazards or restricting access to a seriously injured driver in an overturned car. I think F1 is about as safe as you can get it to be when cars are travelling at over 300 km/h.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
I'm impress with how much rubbish you can come up to try to defend the un-defendable.Quote:
Originally Posted by DexDexter
Who asked for stopping sports? Did I say they should stop racing?!
Tell me do they ware tibia protection in Football? Yes they do. By your account they must be stupid to try to protect them from the possible accidents.
Also do they use all kind of head protection in Rugby? Yes they do, so they must be idiots cause they try to protect themselves as much as possible without impairing their performance.
BTW do they use lots of protection in Hockey? Hell sure they do, I wonder why?! Maybe so that someone can come up with some utterly ridiculous post like yours and question an athletes need for protecting his own body and health.
[quote="barryfullalove"] Oh FFS, it's like smashing myself in the face with a brick. Did you not actually read what I wrote, or are you being intentionally ignorant?
[quote]
Thank you for the kind words...
One should always thrive to improve safety if possible. The show should be 2nd to the drivers, team members, marshals and spectators safety, always.Quote:
Originally Posted by 555-04Q2
I'm all for safety mate. Just not rediculous/unnecessary safety measures at the expense of the "show" :)Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
F the show, fair play and safety are first in line, followed by technical genius, driving skills, ice cream, pit babes...list of other hundreds of good stuff.... show. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by 555-04Q2
The pit babes should he higher up you list ;) :DQuote:
Originally Posted by ioan