FIA and their stewards will be his best firends from now on, they have to.
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FIA and their stewards will be his best firends from now on, they have to.
:rotflmao:Quote:
Originally Posted by markabilly
Good night everyone! :)
It was a joke. Racist? against what?
Surely this does not need 9 pages of discussion.
You'd be amazed how many pages of discussion we can have on nothing much. :p :Quote:
Originally Posted by rah
In fact lets discuss why we love to discuss so much. :s mokin:
The fact is he had a poor race today. If he had come out and been more humble about his race as Di resta was, he would have gained alot more respect. While it wouldn't have excused his race, at least he would have agknowledged his mistakes and that is half the battle after all people make mistakes and misjudgments and if they accept punishment for them, then most will admire that and forgive them.
It seems at the moment he really doesn't see that he is in the wrong which I believe he is, and I believe this to be a real problem going forward.
Don't get me wrong I have been and am a Hamilton fan (On track), I like his willingness to try all race, like Kobayashi, but I think he has major flaws in his whole racer personality with the attitude he has after races.
He has bought alot of pressure on himself now by constantly bashing the stewards, other drivers and at times his team. It is not the way to gain respect or develop the team to help him challenge for the title.
He needs to get his head down and work hard to drag the team to the front and not rant on TV straight after the race, and bringing race into it now opens up a wound that will take a while to heal. I can see that hanging over him for a long time.
The next time he faces the stewards this is undoubtably going to be in the air.
I can't believe this. Hamilton gets hit from behind, due to the fact that he needs to slow down for Sutil, and people are placing the blame on Lewis. A car on three wheels is pretty unpredictable and even more so at Monaco.Quote:
Originally Posted by markabilly
I could go on, but it's Memorial Day tomorrow and I'm grilling burgers with my Pop's. Have a good night everyone and I'll see you guys at the next race.
i will tell you what i will repeat what lewis said so you have it in black and white
Just watching the BBC F1 Forum now and to put things in context gotta love his black ie. dark sense of humour.Quote:
Originally Posted by rah
Irony does not translate well in print and nor does it help when you have a bad day in the office and cannot blame yourself for some of it.
I saw him say it live and although he was clearly joking I question whether there was any truth to it...
You know, some people say what they mean as a joke.
Well, my thoughts. I think he'd have done well with a hot shower and a meal before talking to the media... I guess the drivers are not afforded that luxury though! ;)
I love Hami and have grown to respect him when I did not at the start of his career. Yesterday was a bad, bad day for him. One ill forgive if he can put this behind him and carry forward in a better way.
No surprise to see Hamilton's comments generating a thread like this. From the moment the interview began you could tell this was one unhappy and frustrated driver. I did wince a bit at his comments, but do we want to see 'corporate speak' or drivers speaking their minds?
I agree with Hamilton about F1 wanting to see overtaking, and yet penalties being dished out when drivers try. He hasn't been the only driver to suffer at the hands of the stewards in those circumstances and I think that what drivers can do now is over policed.
That said Lewis looked like a driver who was up for a scrap yesterday and in those kind of circumstances perhaps incidents were inevitable, particularly at Monaco. Perhaps he frustration of watching the championship slip away for another year is getting to him.
I disagree with what he said but there have been times in the past where I felt he was racially discriminated against. If there's ever a penalty to be handed out then Hamilton is the one to receive it. I still regard Spa 2008 as one of the most blatant and disgraceful attempts to sabotage another drivers championship by the governing body any sport that we have ever seen. It was a disgrace and if anything Hamilton should have spoken up then if he felt he was being racially targeted. He chose the wrong time to do so now but yesterday I saw a man that was sick of being picked on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ari
Anyway, he has cleared the air with the FIA and said it was a joke. I'm sure there was more to it than that and he may believe there is more to it but the matter is cleared for now anyway. If the FIA give him any sort of ban for his comments now after him clearing the air with them then they are only giving substance to his claim in the first place. The stewards and the FIA will not want to make this into a race issue and giving him a ban of any sort now would definitely do that.
There are always going to be a few that choose to blame a driver because they don't like him or it just generates amusement for their own benefit. It's obvious even to the least bright of the dumb dumbs that Hamilton was not to blame for the SC incident.Quote:
Originally Posted by gloomyDAY
He obviously said it as a joke.
It doesn't matter whether he was joking, he effectively accused the stewards of racism. That's not something to be laughed at considerng how seriously racism is treated. I have a feeling that Whitmarsh had a word to the boy, hence the apology. Frusrated or not, he shouldn't have said it.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1
Racially discriminated or merely discriminated based on his team - just because someone is personally targeted does not mean that race is going to be the underlying reason. There has been NOTHING to ever suggest that there is a racial component to any of the times Lewis has been targeted (be it fairly or not) and to come out w/ a stupid throw away line like he did certainly doesn't do anything for those fighting to remove the last vestiges for racism which remain in parts of the world.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Black Knight
I was a huge LHfan when he first came through and thought that he needed to pull his head in a bit over the last 12mths but onaco yesterday and his attitude of expecting ppl to part like the Red Sea and allow him to sail on by without properly pulling off a passing move (since when did the driver leading have to yield to the car behind - I notice that there were a few on here saying LH was in the clear who 12mths ago ripped into Vettel for sticking his nose up the inside of one MW).
Yesterday LH did not drive like a former World Champion but rather a petulent little brat; and his comments post race about how 'friggen ridiculous' it was to be brought up on his latest indiscretion shows that he is completely out of touch - thankfully he has apologised but what he said to the media following his meeting w/ the stewards to say sorry seemed very much a 'i'm sorry that i'm having to apologise for what i said'
I'd like to see Ben Edwards commenting his moves - the attack on Massa was "classic Matt Neal" :D
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tumbo
Expecting people to part like the Red Sea? Rubbish. He was trying to race. Would you have preferred seen him sit back and play with his dick for 78 laps of the race like Massa and most others were willing to do? It is very clear he made an error Massa into Loews Hairpin but so did Massa. Other than that he didn’t do anything else wrong in the race. The SC incident was a racing incident and that is clearly obvious to anyone with half a brain. The incident into St Devote with Maldonado was Maldonado’s fault as he turned in on Hamilton. Where he expects Hamilton to go at that stage is beyond me but certainly Hamilton should not have received a penalty for what happened there. I also believe if the stewards were fully convinced he was at fault they would have given him a penalty that would have affected his finishing position, so clearly they weren’t 100% convinced themselves either but felt that they had to be seen to be doing something.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tumbo
Hamilton has been personally targeted in the past. If you can give me a good reason other than race why that would be the case then I shall accept that but other than that he clearly has been targeted. Race is the only obvious reason that I can think of; can you think of any other ones?
Comments like what Hamilton said are a result of being targeted, remove him being targeted and you remove the need for him to say such things. That will help those fighting to remove racism, which, by the way, is very much still alive in most of the world unfortunately.
This thread is a proof that F1 drivers should strictly just do PR interviews, say the right things, no matter how boring they are, and everybody is happy. The moment someone says feck all and says what he wants to, it becomes fodder for his haters to jump on the bandwagon and rip into him.
:laugh:Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/...16_468x286.jpg
This was in 2008, Spain. Very much 21st century, no?
This and as another poster mentioned, some jackasses yelling monkey at races, and I don't blame Lewis for being a tad too emotional about this all. Not only this, the whole fuss about him being the first black driver in F1 was created by the media, as he said in an interview, I don't know if I quote him correctly, "I don't even think about it unless I'm asked that question by the media."
There has been more overtaking in the last 6 races than in the last 6 years... even in the Monaco GP there was plenty of overtaking up and down the grid yet only one driver stood out as being gung ho... The fans want to see overtaking and they have seen overtaking... they do not wish to see dangerous moves by a driver who was obviously not in the right frame of mind to be in that car yesterday.
He should take the next two weeks to look at his attitude and try and calm down or he is going to self-destruct and in F1 that can mean someone might get hurt.
I'm not a big fan of McLaren but frustratingly I like both their drivers and I hope to see them win again, but Lewis is making it hard to like him at the moment.
I never thought I would ever sy this but maybe they need to bring back Ron Dennis, I doubt his comments would never have been made had Ron still been in charge.
I gave you one - he drives for McLaren and in 2008 they were clearly getting the short end of the straw following the 07 incidents - and so ur basic premise is that there is no evidence it is race but clearly it must be race?? And if you think the targetting of Hamilton by the stewards for lying in Australia 09 was race related??Quote:
Originally Posted by The Black Knight
As for Maldonado it was a dive-bomb plain and simple - watch the replay, there was no way he was able to stop since he basically went right up the inside expecting Maldonado to yield position without a fight. Penalty has been in F1 for YRS and will continue to be
I don't see any problem with Hamilton's comments - they were clearly intended as a joke. Its good to see some drivers with a bit of personaility. As for the penalties, I thought the first one was a bit harsh. Yes, it probably was Hamilton's fault but for me not bad enough to warrant a penalty. If such a minor transgression attracts a penalty then it will surely make drivers more cautious and diminish the racing.
Anyway, my 2 cents on this matter. The Massa incident was Lewis' fault, but so was Massa to blame for turning in too soon. He could have given him room, both cars would have made it through, and Massa would still be ahead before the tunnel.
Maldonado should have used his rear view mirrors better. Yes, Lewis was ambitious, but all overtaking moves are ambitious. If MS hadn't used his mirrors when Lewis overtook him, it would have been a similar disaster. I don't understand the second penalty. It's not like Lewis deliberately took out a championship rival. He had nothing to gain from causing a collision. It was a simple racing incident. Penalty undeserved.
That's all.
Lucky for F1 and the rest of us who want to see clean racing you don't get to make that decision.Quote:
Originally Posted by X-ecutioner
The first paragraph of that post is very badly written. I find it hard to get your point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tumbo
Regards the Maldonado incident, Lewis clearly had gone down the inside like he did with Schumacher. Schumacher had the sense to move out of the way. Maldonado, a little less experienced, chose to turn in early. Take the turn in point of the car in front, place some marker on your screen to mark the proper racing line and then look at Maldonado's turning point and you'll see what I mean. If you can't see it after that then go to specsavers.
Is that where they sell Lewis tinted glasses?Quote:
Originally Posted by The Black Knight
I have 20/20 vision, don't need them :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Cooper_S
Ok i'll spell it out my point more simply:
2007 McLaren were caught up in a little incident which became known as Stepneygate and resulted in the team being dumped from the constructors championship (surely you must remember this). In 2008 there were a number of incidents involving Lewis and penalties which were deemed at the time to be quite harsh and as though he had a target on his back for stewards - at this time quite a few of us were making rumblings about unfair targeting of lewis but it is clear that race was NEVER an issue here. Following on from this we saw lewis brought up for things like lying to the stewards among other offenses; some like the previous were incredibly serious and had ppl baying for blood but on the whole he didn't seem to be anymore a target for steward investigations than other drivers who fought hard on the racetrack.
Fast forward to this wkend and we have lewis claiming racial motivation as the reason the STEWARDS have been calling him into the office on a regular basis. This is a serious accusation and not one to be made lightly in any forum; now where is the evidence this has been racially motivated cause on the facts there is none. There is nothing that could be used to even say circumstantially this has been the case yet the argument seems to be Black Knight that with no evidence it must still be racism underlying lewis being penalised for poor judgment and skirting the laws of F1 rather than anything else because there is nothing to prove that it isn't racism - this is known as the bootstraps argument and has about as much strength as lewis' claim that there is racism against him in the steward's office.
Now it is clear - as a photo shown earlier proves - that there have been attacks on him by followers of the sports based on race; now unless one of those clown's shown was a steward (and they don't seem to resemble Charlie Whiting or any former driver or the like to me but i'm happy to be proven wrong) then they are acting as individuals. A spray like this one from lewis is completely uncalled for; and he would have apologised also because of the risk of a private action for defamation.
Hopefully this is more clear :)
Why should the driver give room to Lewy? Because he is "racey"?Quote:
Originally Posted by X-ecutioner
Yes, I am well aware of the Stephneygate and now I get what you’re saying. Honestly, I have always had a suspicion of racism against Lewis. If the FIA for some reason chose to give Lewis harsher penalties due to the Stephneygate then they should have given McLaren a more suitable penalty. A penalty is punishment enough for the team, if the FIA don’t believe the penalty strong enough then they can impose a stronger penalty or further sanctions at the time but to take it out on a new driver on the grid is wrong. Either way, the FIA are at fault here. If they were going to hold a grudge then they should have cleared that grudge with a stronger penalty for the Stephneygate. Again, I’m not convinced that it was the Stephneygate alone but I agree any evidence of racism isn’t well founded and would be very hard to prove but I'm not convinced that racism doesn't play some role and clearly neither is Lewis.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tumbo
However, lets keep an open eye on it ;)
Lucky for you, the ones who want "clean racing", the stewards have made sure that drivers will think twice before even attempting a move in the future, unless it's a simple slipstreaming move on a 1 km long straight with the help of some gimmicks. On a tight corner, oh hell no! By today's standards, Senna and Gilles Villenueve would have both received penalties in most races.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cooper_S
Probably it's better to go back to the Ferrari era where the two Ferraris were trouncing the field and the only passing moves were during pit-stops. Simple and yet effective. Dollops of "clean racing" right there. ;)
Please don't talk like ioan, you are better than him. And to answer your question, to avoid damage to his car. Anyway, I said it was Lewis' fault, nobody is denying that. But if Massa would have used his rear view mirrors like MS did, he could have seen where Lewis' was already. Even though Lowe's is a tight corner, he could have taken a wider line, held that line through Portier and still would have been on the inside line before the tunnel, thus being ahead and avoiding contact. Anyway it was all in the heat of the moment while "racing" and both of them made mistakes, Lewis more so.Quote:
Originally Posted by F1boat
LOL... as a career long Schumacher fan I've been there done that... enjoyed every moment of it thanks...
But back to your point, I don't have to go back to those halcyon days as now we have great racing despite one driver (at present anyway) being dominant and stupid moves by drivers being too rash are being penalised…
The days of a Senna or a Schumacher being so aggressive that other drivers simply moved out of the way are gone, someone need to let Lewis know this… Oh wait they are and they are called Stewards.
By all means attack and try and pass, but if it fails he has to accept his faults, you could chuck it up the inside of anyone every lap but wouldn't last long. So he has to be patient. Around Monaco you get drivers stuck behind others for 40 laps, no point in just launching it in there and hoping the other driver gets out of the way.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Black Knight
I think what got to most, was the way he didn't accept any blame. Surely even if you feel Massa or Hulkenberg were at fault you wouldn't claim it was 100% his fault like Lewis did.
The attitude to the race was worse than what he did on the track. If he'd of said, "I tried the pass I thought Massa should have seen me, but maybe I was a bit too late to make the move" then many would accept it as a mistake in racing, but to rant that Massa and Maldonado just turned into him just to stop Lewis passing is not right.
Those drivers wouldn't take such stupid risks just to stop Lewis passing because they ruin there own race.
X, I can't understand you. I know that you support McLaren-Mercedes and like Lewis for his overtaking maneuvres and I admit that his moves on MS and Maldonado were hard, but fair. But against Massa he showed his ugly side. As Lewis sees and opening, he forces himself in it and clearly thinks that the other driver has no right to defend against him - if he tries, Lewis bangs him. This attitude may work in touring cars, but in open wheelers it is very dangerous, unethical, and reveals burning arrogance in the driver. In the case, in Lewis Hamilton. Think about this year, in which we had so many great race and so much overtaking, done by Vettel, Webber, Jenson and of course Lewis. But it is only Lewis who makes dirty maneuvre and that's why the stewards and penalising him. It's not a vendetta. It's not because he is black.
It is because he is dangerous and his moves ruin the races for other guys and in my opinion endanger them - this was Monaco after all. That's why so many fans are upset with him. Because he thinks that everything is allowed.
And BTW, you mentioned Senna, Senna thought in similar way too and while he is udoubtedly one of the best ever, these moves also left an enormous black mark on his career. Similar to the moves of Michael, who you dislike immensely, if I am not mistaken.
Wait, when the heck did Lewis "bang" anybody this season prior to Monaco? Australia was clean. Malaysia penalty was because of weaving, albeit still much lesser than how much Webber weaves during a race or how dangerously MS weaved during his career. China was a clean race winning move. Nothing happened in Turkey, and in Spain he tried his best but couldn't overtake. So, where are all these allegations piling on from?!? He has always been a rather aggressive, but still a clean overtaker, and apart from Monaco 2011, when else did he "bang" somebody? 2008 was nothing controversial apart from the stupid steward decision at Spa. 2009 was low key, 2010 was a great year where he was in the mix up until the last race. I think you're going a bit overboard in your criticism of Lewis. You don't have to like him, but you also don't have to hate him with a passion and just come up with exaggerated allegations.Quote:
Originally Posted by F1boat
At this point you can't compare Lewis to Senna or Schumacher, because he hasn't tried to deliberately take out a championship rival yet. :p At least Senna admitted to it and was bullish about it, while Schumacher acted like he didn't do anything wrong. With Lewis, the only problem in Monaco was with Massa and Maldonado, who are far from being championship rivals at this point, so there was nothing deliberate, only racing incidents. Nothing to gain for Lewis, and everything to lose, since he was the only legit contender to this year's crown apart from Vettel, right up until Monaco. If you remember, Massa created problems for Button too in Australia, so the fault A TAD could be on Massa as well for over-defending.Quote:
Originally Posted by F1boat
Oh, I feel sorry for you. :(Quote:
Originally Posted by Cooper_S
Schumacher wasn't aggressive in overtaking, but in defending, still is (See the kamikaze move at Hungary last year and again at Turkey this year). It was his over the top weaving that prompted the stewards to bring in the "no third weave" rule into place. For the pope's sake, he was allowed to win a championship after taking out Damon Hill in an almost criminal fashion, but oh no, messing up trying to overtake slower cars in 2011 is such an unholy crime! Many drivers still use these "tactics" but weirdly Lewis gets penalized more so. After a while one starts to wonder, just as Adrian Sutil also wondered about this 3 years ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cooper_S
[quote=Cooper_S]Oh, I feel sorry for you.[/quote:2wuiarrj]Quote:
Originally Posted by "X-ecutioner":2wuiarrj
No need 'Z' I am quite proud to be a Schumacher fan, indeed I feel very fortunate to have witnessed his 91GP wins :champion: , 7 WDC's :champion: and 154 podiums :up:
But I've heard people say that you are a McLaren fan :bigcry: , please forgive me you have my deepest sympathies… so... I... will... speak... more... slowly... for... you... in... future... :rotflmao:
It was a poor attempt at a joke - get over it, move on!
Not that easy... you see while will wish to move on others will be of the opinion that just because he was told by his team to go to the judges and say it was a joke does not mean he meant it as a joke... he was agnry and seople have a tendency to say what they really feel when they are angry howeer much they regret what they said afterwards... He said it and like it or not it will not go away that easy.