Prostitution

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Originally Posted by gadjo_dilo

Again, I'm sorry. I can't concentrate anymore. Too much noise....

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Oh, don't apologise. You make very valid points — it's just that I don't entirely agree with them.

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Originally Posted by henners88

I feel the same as you. All very sensible debate :) .

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Absolutely.

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Originally Posted by gadjo_dilo

More than that, when you marry someone you are supposed to start a family and to live in common with that person, when you go to the whores it’s like my father used to say „Incaleca si fute/Descaleca si du-te” - can’t translate this because it would lose the saviour of the rhyme. ( But I must apoligize to Ioan, for using such a rude expression. Otherwise, in real life I'm a very polite person ).

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Don't worry, I think that is a great saying! Plus I am a very liberal person. :D

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Originally Posted by gadjo_dilo

I'm trying an exercise of imagination: supposing prostitution will be legalised in my country and the profession of "whore" will be accepted by society....
One day I'll lose my job and I go to the Agency of unemployed workers to find out the only vacant jobs are in a brothel.....

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You're making a mistake by comparing prostitution with other jobs. Prostitution means selling your body, the other jobs mean selling your soul! ;)

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Originally Posted by ioan

You're making a mistake by comparing prostitution with other jobs. Prostitution means selling your body, the other jobs mean selling your soul! ;)

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Like it.

Thanks. I hope this will brighten also Gadjo's day! :)

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Originally Posted by ioan

Thanks. I hope this will brighten also Gadjo's day! :)

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Thanks for the beautiful intentions but unfortunately NOTHING can brighten my days.
I'm a lost case.

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Originally Posted by henners88

You're not in a brothel now are you? They can be noisy I am told. :D

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It was supposed to be a joke but ironically it has a grain of truth.
They say that politics is a whore. The terrible noise was coming from the plaza in front of the Parliament and even myself was in a governmental building. :laugh:

I know that my sick curiosity would kill me someday but I can’t stop it....
I see that all of you don’t consider prostitution as immoral. So how many of you admit they used to go to ”the girls” ? And if you did , had you the courage to admit it in front of your wives, girlfriends, friends, family?

I would have started a poll but I don't know how.

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

Again, there is no single definition of 'dignity'.

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I can't make a theory of dignity, all I may say it's genuine only when you express it naturally. And it's usually related to unhappiness: in front of death, when you're imprisoned, generally when destiny hits you.
One of my fav personality says that you act with dignity when you serve like a master.

But I have another issue now ( definitely mornings have a weird impact on me :laugh :) : Is dignity politically correct?
But that's already another story....

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Originally Posted by henners88

Thankfully I am happy in my marriage and beforehand I was always an outgoing chap who has had everything fullflled. I've never felt the need to visit a brothel. I support legalization simply to keep the industry safer and preferably off our streets where they are in contained buildings.

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That's not an excuse. Good guys are always taken ( unfortunately !) but it doesn't mean the usual clients are only te ones with a bad breath or smelly feet. :laugh:

I don't bother to look for solutions. It's illegal but tolerated. The city is full of legal erotic parlours that hides ( do they? ) such activities. The papers are full of offers of young ladies in search of fun and protection. Even the TV programme guide paper has the last page full of "meaningful" pics associated with phone numbers. The TV news acts like promotors of a sexual tourism. etc. etc.

There's no solution for it. I don't mind if it exists but to cover it under a legal blanket is too much for me.

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Originally Posted by henners88

There are solutions to make the industry safer and I think your issue is you think if its legalized, then its in danger of being socially acceptable and I can see that point.

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I don't see it like a danger. In my opinion there are some things that even if they're posible or not forbidden they "aren't nice".

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Originally Posted by henners88

I personally don't think it would ever be socially acceptable just like licensed sex shops are still taboo on our high streets.

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Really? On my way home I can easily count 4 such establishments

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Originally Posted by henners88

The nature of the business will always be taboo because people in general just aren't comfortable talking about sex.

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You should work in my office. :laugh: Not that we share our experiences but our vocabulary is really toxic.

Maybe this will help the situation:
Robotic prostitutes could replace human prostitutes by 2050

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The thing about prostitutes is that they are mostly illegal here in the United States, they carry diseases and sometimes they just get tuckered out. But by the year 2050, concerns about spending an evening with a lady of the night could be a thing of the past.


Researchers at Victoria University of Wellington in New Zealand wrote in the journal “Futures” that sex robots are not only possible, but could be better than real-life prostitutes.


“Sex robots are absolutely inevitable… in fact they already exist,” Michelle Mars and Ian Yeoman point out.

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Originally Posted by gadjo_dilo

There's no solution for it. I don't mind if it exists but to cover it under a legal blanket is too much for me.

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Even if covering it with a legal blanket means better protection for the prostitutes, improved medical care, reduced risk of trafficking, underage girls or IV drug abuse and better employment conditions?

Not liking prostitution is not the same as turning a blind eye to the plight of many prostitutes in a profession that is currently illegal and therefore underground and unmonitored.

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Originally Posted by Malbec

Even if covering it with a legal blanket means better protection for the prostitutes, improved medical care, reduced risk of trafficking, underage girls or IV drug abuse and better employment conditions?

Not liking prostitution is not the same as turning a blind eye to the plight of many prostitutes in a profession that is currently illegal and therefore underground and unmonitored.

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Maybe it's a thing I can't really understand. But I'm a bit drunk now and can't comment anymore.

Oh NO !!! Another movie star turns left and takes the "Hershey Highway" I bet it is real pleasant around the Travolta family today :) Well who will be next to "Rump Up" sean connery. I always thought it was a bit strange for a man to lay there and another man rub his body, especially when so many beautiful women are available.

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Originally Posted by gadjo_dilo

I know that my sick curiosity would kill me someday but I can’t stop it....
I see that all of you don’t consider prostitution as immoral. So how many of you admit they used to go to ”the girls” ? And if you did , had you the courage to admit it in front of your wives, girlfriends, friends, family?

I would have started a poll but I don't know how.

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The closest I've got to it was visiting stripper clubs when they first appeared in Romania. Never paid for sex though.

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Originally Posted by gadjo_dilo

There's no solution for it. I don't mind if it exists but to cover it under a legal blanket is too much for me.

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I think this is the result of the misinformation that has been fed to people in Romania, mixed with the 'high' moral grounds inoculated by the ultra conservative ortodox church whom are against legalization of prostitution, for whatever obscure reasons. Rather sad.

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Originally Posted by gadjo_dilo

You should work in my office. :laugh: Not that we share our experiences but our vocabulary is really toxic.

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Which proves henners' point, you do not talk sex, you just talk dirty.
Back in the day when I was in France we met new female students from Romania every year and we were rather surprised that usually out of 10 girls only one of them would be able to talk about sex, the rest of them consider it to be highly offensive. Most of them did however change within a year or so. Which points towards the Romanian society being the root of the issue.

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Originally Posted by gadjo_dilo

Maybe it's a thing I can't really understand. But I'm a bit drunk now and can't comment anymore.

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You're drunk at 14:57?! That's really a surprise.
Do you think getting drunk so early in the day is acceptable?! ;)

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Originally Posted by ioan

You're drunk at 14:57?! That's really a surprise.
Do you think getting drunk so early in the day is acceptable?! ;)

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Big deal! I saw english fans of different teams who were already drunk at 9 in the morning.....
However I have a good excuse. I was at work and in front of the building it was organized a fan zone for Athletic Bilbao. As we’re famous for our hospitability ( wonder why ) some barbecues were installed in Constitution Plaza and the smell coming through the window got me crazy. It was imposible to work either as the guys were entertained with different types of music which was played too loud. So we decided to go out and buy some “mici” – which BTW were excellent, only 2,5 lei each but double sized and with a very good meat – as the stuff for export, imagine the scandal if the spaniards would have caught an alimentary toxinfection :laugh:
However the beer was rather expensive – 8 lei/plastic glass of 400 ml and the benches were wet due to a bloody rain. So we decided to eat them in our office but as “micii” requires a drink my boss offered us a bottle of good wine ( Cabernet Sauvignon of Samburesti –which I warmly recommend you ). Added to the exhaustion of the day work, the magnetism ( if you know what I mean ) started to work. However as I underlined I was just a bit drunk, I could continue my work and get home keeping the right line ( despite different groups of fans forcing a slalom ).
Fair to say that at the match I also drank 3 summer spritzes and a small glass of homemade tuica ( also ate 2 bars of chocolate which is total madness ) but managed to keep myself sober. That’s what i call good training.

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Originally Posted by ioan

Which proves henners' point, you do not talk sex, you just talk dirty.
Back in the day when I was in France we met new female students from Romania every year and we were rather surprised that usually out of 10 girls only one of them would be able to talk about sex, the rest of them consider it to be highly offensive. Most of them did however change within a year or so. Which points towards the Romanian society being the root of the issue.

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Nah... It's the entourage that makes the difference.

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Originally Posted by ioan

The closest I've got to it was visiting stripper clubs when they first appeared in Romania. Never paid for sex though.

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May I ask you why?

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Originally Posted by Malbec

Even if covering it with a legal blanket means better protection for the prostitutes, improved medical care, reduced risk of trafficking, underage girls or IV drug abuse and better employment conditions?

Not liking prostitution is not the same as turning a blind eye to the plight of many prostitutes in a profession that is currently illegal and therefore underground and unmonitored.

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I think you forget the kind of people who get involved in this 'business'. If they don't mind laws banning prostitution they will care even less about laws that make them go through regular medical check-ups or pay taxes. Legalizing prostitution we'll have little effect on those dealing with the problems listed by you because they don't care about laws, society and all the other things that stand between them and easy money. And you're stretching maybe too much the meaning of the word profession (a vocation requiring knowledge of some department of learning or science? what's next, professional masturbator?)

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Originally Posted by gadjo_dilo

May I ask you why?

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Do you really have too? He's so awesome he doesn't have too. That's the very least you should know about Ioan by now.

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Originally Posted by Big Ben

Do you really have too? He's so awesome he doesn't have too. That's the very least you should know about Ioan by now.

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Yes, I'm REALLY interested in his answer.
Because I want to know WHO are the guys that really have to go to "the girls".

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Originally Posted by Big Ben

I think you forget the kind of people who get involved in this 'business'. If they don't mind laws banning prostitution they will care even less about laws that make them go through regular medical check-ups or pay taxes. Legalizing prostitution we'll have little effect on those dealing with the problems listed by you because they don't care about laws, society and all the other things that stand between them and easy money. And you're stretching maybe too much the meaning of the word profession (a vocation requiring knowledge of some department of learning or science? what's next, professional masturbator?)

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I'm not forgetting the type of person involved in the business at all. I've had to pick up the consequences of their 'industry' too many times for me to forget, and I've met plenty of them as a consequence.

You talk as if prostitutes are criminal in the same sense as burglars and that legalising the profession is akin to legalising a thieves guild. It isn't. Your description of the girls and some boys involved indicates you know little about them. Few people go into prostitution because they want to (ever heard a little girl say I want to be a whore when I grow up?) but because social circumstance including drug addiction forces them. Some do it against their will, either trafficked and forced into sexual slavery or by their partners/pimps who use them as a source of income. There are a few, usually at the top end of the industry who do it purely through choice and who earn quite a good income, but they are numerically by far the minority.

If you look at the proposals set forward by countries such as Holland and the Islamic Republic of Iran for legalising prostitution, they involved the establishment of brothels where the girls would be licensed, their physical security established and where they receive free and regular medical care. And yes, their income would be taxed (as if pimps don't extract a fee as it is now right?). I think there is little wrong with that kind of model.

Essentially we are talking the same logic as legalising drugs. Bring the industry above board and regulate it, reduce profitability massively for the criminal element (expelling them) and make it far far easier for the relevant authorities and charitable groups to identify those in trouble and provide them with the help they need.

BTW I use the term profession because of the old saying, that prostitution is the world's oldest profession and soldiery the second.

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Originally Posted by henners88

I must admit I've been to a strip club on 3 or 4 occasions when on stag do's etc. It's not been for any real need because I'm lacking anything at home but its been a lot of fun too. There's something very exciting about a naked girl sat on your lap lol and to be honest its just abit of harmless fantasy.

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Really?!!!!!!???!!!
I can't understand the girls who goes to male strippers shows and then scream like crazy.

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Originally Posted by Big Ben

I think you forget the kind of people who get involved in this 'business'. If they don't mind laws banning prostitution they will care even less about laws that make them go through regular medical check-ups or pay taxes. Legalizing prostitution we'll have little effect on those dealing with the problems listed by you because they don't care about laws, society and all the other things that stand between them and easy money. And you're stretching maybe too much the meaning of the word profession (a vocation requiring knowledge of some department of learning or science? what's next, professional masturbator?)

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Why have pointless laws on the statute books? Has the fact of prosititution being illegal eradicated it? No. Will it ever do so? No. Therefore, as with certain drugs, a different approach is needed, surely?

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Originally Posted by henners88

I can assure you I didn't scream like crazy when I visited a strip club lol. I'm guessing I'm a little more open minded than yourself and that might well be a cultural thing I don't know. I just think as humans we all have sexual erges and abit of harmless exhibitionism does no real harm. I suppose you'd frown upon people looking at pornographic material in the privacy of ones own home? I think we all have impulses by nature, its just certain people take it too far.

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Don't want to commit an indiscretion but are you a girl/woman?
I made it clear I hate girls who .....etc.
Girls use to scream on such shows. Men just shut up and sigh.

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Originally Posted by Malbec

Even if covering it with a legal blanket means better protection for the prostitutes, improved medical care, reduced risk of trafficking, underage girls or IV drug abuse and better employment conditions?

Not liking prostitution is not the same as turning a blind eye to the plight of many prostitutes in a profession that is currently illegal and therefore underground and unmonitored.

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A friend of mine was in Hamburg with a friend of his. That friend's friend was from Southern Europe and quite obsessed with sex. So he went to the red light area and had a choice between legal service at about 100 Euro and illegal service at 30 Euro. Needless to say, he went fore a more cometitive offer.

What I'm saying is that some part of this business will always stay underground no matter how many opportunities they have to be legal.

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Originally Posted by Rudy Tamasz

A friend of mine was in Hamburg with a friend of his. That friend's friend was from Southern Europe and quite obsessed with sex. So he went to the red light area and had a choice between legal service at about 100 Euro and illegal service at 30 Euro. Needless to say, he went fore a more cometitive offer.

What I'm saying is that some part of this business will always stay underground no matter how many opportunities they have to be legal.

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You are no doubt right in saying that there will always be an illegal sub-industry if prostitution is legalised, however surely that is an improvement on what goes on now where the entire industry is illegal?

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

Why have pointless laws on the statute books? Has the fact of prosititution being illegal eradicated it? No. Will it ever do so? No. Therefore, as with certain drugs, a different approach is needed, surely?

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Has the fact of murder being illegal eradicated it? No. Will it ever do so? No. Therefore, as with certain drugs, a different approach is needed, surely? Surely?

So if a law against something is good only if it eradicates that thing is there any law we should keep?

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Originally Posted by Rudy Tamasz

What I'm saying is that some part of this business will always stay underground no matter how many opportunities they have to be legal.

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That's true. I always think about this whenever a promoter of the prostitution law claims it would bring money to the budget.

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Originally Posted by Big Ben

Has the fact of murder being illegal eradicated it? No. Will it ever do so? No. Therefore, as with certain drugs, a different approach is needed, surely? Surely?

So if a law against something is good only if it eradicates that thing is there any law we should keep?

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I don't see that as being a valid comparison given the severity of the offences. I might as well turn the question back to you — as far as you are concerned, what is the point of prostitution being illegal?

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Originally Posted by Big Ben

Has the fact of murder being illegal eradicated it? No. Will it ever do so? No. Therefore, as with certain drugs, a different approach is needed, surely? Surely?

So if a law against something is good only if it eradicates that thing is there any law we should keep?

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How bizarre...

Why is it that people on this thread equate prostitution with murder and theft?

Can you not tell the difference between an act performed between two consenting adults following payment and an act performed WITHOUT consent?

Why didn't the legalisation of strip clubs arouse your anger? A naked woman shaking her arse in your groin for money is perfectly acceptable but bloody hell, if she so much as dares to touch the guy she should be imprisoned dammit!

Excuse me if I don't follow your logic.

{Edit} its also interesting to see that despite several pages of arguments about making prostitution itself legal or illegal noone has suggested making the use of them illegal....

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

I don't see that as being a valid comparison given the severity of the offences. I might as well turn the question back to you — as far as you are concerned, what is the point of prostitution being illegal?

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It was not a comparison. I just thought of trying your logic with another offense. You said a law against prostitution shouldn't be kept because it doesn't eradicate it.... IMO that's a little much to ask from a law... any law... and with that I'll make the mistake and answer your question and say that I feel prostitution should be illegal to discourage it.

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Originally Posted by Malbec

How bizarre...

Why is it that people on this thread equate prostitution with murder and theft?

Can you not tell the difference between an act performed between two consenting adults following payment and an act performed WITHOUT consent?

Why didn't the legalisation of strip clubs arouse your anger? A naked woman shaking her arse in your groin for money is perfectly acceptable but bloody hell, if she so much as dares to touch the guy she should be imprisoned dammit!

Excuse me if I don't follow your logic.

{Edit} its also interesting to see that despite several pages of arguments about making prostitution itself legal or illegal noone has suggested making the use of them illegal....

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I excuse you. I've explained what I meant in my previous post. I hope that makes it clearer.