lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by F1boat
If anything this move has shown us one thing. Webber is leading the Championship with a team which does not want him to win!!! That's a bloody solid effort!
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lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by F1boat
If anything this move has shown us one thing. Webber is leading the Championship with a team which does not want him to win!!! That's a bloody solid effort!
that is because of the distortion caused by the telephotos lens...on the other hand, it is well supported by the in-car photo/videos :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Valve Bounce
as to those who refuse to see it, :rotflmao:
The better question is why all the these english speakers hate the germans so much and want el chopper to win a wdc, they are willing to do [whatever]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firstgear
And of course, all that "data" is the stuff sprewed forth from the mouths of Englanders and aussies and fans of the british way of life, not wanting to see another brit, once again, having his pants beat off by some miserable, scrawny little German
So they think how many germans are there and how many of the other....opps that is a lot of sales...opps, let us save some revenue and say "racing incident"
after all, if they really want to dull the chopper, there are more quiet ways
Face it, Damon Hill no like Germans, Aussies no like Germans, Arie no like Germans...........and for them, if the choice for the new WDC comes down to Webber, Button and Hamilton, well, we all know who will get the back of that bus :rolleyes:
Just because I speak English does not mean I can't have a different view to yours.Quote:
Originally Posted by markabilly
Eki blames George Bush.
If you do not understand that you do not read Chit Chat.
Markabilly you so have no idea of what your are talking about. Australia may officially have been part of the brittish empire, but Australians do NOT consider themselfs to be brittish and brits do NOT consider Australians to be brittish.
And Australians have absolutely no problem with Germans, their is absolutely no rivalry their unlike the rivalry between the english and the germans.
Markabilly your talking about stuff that doesn't exist!
The brits and the Aussies have as strong a rivalry as the brits and Germans do, so you clearly know sweet F A of what your talking about man!
Webber wasn't told to move over and let Vettel through, so when Vettel made his move Webber instinctively put the squeeze on. When Vettel got ahead by a nose, he instictively tried to take the line back as any F1 driver with a slight lead will try to do based on the unwritten rules of cut-throat F1 driver creed. Webber slightly at fault for doing a full squeeze (meaning pushing him to the line on the side of the track, not further...though Webber has on occasion gone beyond a full sqeeze and into the force-off zone) on a teammate but that's not the direct cause of the accident, just a factor in the collision; Vettel mostly at fault for moving back over so violently that Webber couldn't react in time. I voted both but I'd put it at, oh, 15% Webber and 85% Vettel.
There's been 2 defining moments in the championship chase so far. They are the radiator fan mistake by Buttons' crew, and this collision. When the season is done we can look back on these two moments and consider how they altered the championship, which now at the moment clearly features all drivers on both McLaren and RedBull teams.
I still think Vettel is mostly at fault but as I said Webber is not completely innocent either. I do agree on one point with Markabilly though, and it is something I saw and believed right from the outset. Webber did ever so slightly nudge his car to the left which did contribute to the incident.
At the end of the day it is a racing incident pure and simple with a long set of circumstances that came together to create the collision.
Was it avoidable? yes.
But we are talking about an erratic overtaker in Vettel and a borderline dirty defender of position in Webber so this outcome was destined to happen.
What to me was telling was the initial team's response. If i was Webber, I would be not to pleased about that. I expect more fireworks before the end of the season.
Q: how do i add markabilly to the ignore list
Go to "user CP" at top of this page, then select the appropriate option.
Well, the Aussie certainly is not to blame, so I guess you call it right big boy.Quote:
Originally Posted by tamburello
when i said,Quote:
Originally Posted by henners88
And of course, all that "data" is the stuff sprewed forth from the mouths of Englanders and aussies and fans of the british way of life, not wanting to see another brit, once again, having his pants beat off by some miserable, scrawny little German
Weren't talking about WWII, I was talking about Schuie, beating Damon like an old drum, over and over again....now the new german comes along....
:vader:
but oh my, look at all those british and aussie flags rallying around to defend their chopper.......
Webber wasn't told to let Vettel through .Quote:
Originally Posted by Shifter
But , the lap before , Webber had asked that Vettel be told to back off .
He was denied that request .
This would have been the moment that Sebastian took the message that he should pass .
This rings true with the initial reaction from the bull camp , that Webber caused the trouble by making it too hard .
This is what happens in a series that doesn't allow team orders when , rather ironically , they are required for success .
I know, the pit wall had their arms up in the air in celebration and then ANGER :eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by truefan72
If it weren't the concerns about corporate image and those brits and Ausies not drinking the stuff.....webber would be on his way to being scott speed's new team mate, driving a truck........ :rolleyes:
Now I´m sure, Marks days in RBR is numbered.
Although I put the blame on Vettel, I think the real blame lies within the RBR team, especially the guy who decides how much fuel the car will require to complete the race. To me, having your nose a little further in front means you win at the checkered flag but does not constitute a "completed pass". When you can veer left and right without hitting anything you have completed your pass.
I'm sure if you go out on the highway and get your passenger side door even with another motorist's front bumper and then move over on him you'll get a citation from the cop that investigates the accident saying you hadn't completed your pass of the other vehicle before moving back into the main lane.
But if you told the cop that you saw him coming across but chose to hold your line because he had to make the pass stick..... ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiero 5.7
Hey guys I'm new here but pretty gutted at what happened so had to join up and ask you guys a question.
Does anyone know the layout of a RB6 steering wheel??. If you look at the replay from vettels car at about turn 6 on the lap before the crash he makes 2 adjustments on the steering wheel, what do you think they where??. If webber turned his power down that lap and vettel turned his up, could that make up for the huge speed difference on lap 40??. Maybe he was changing brake bias or wing angle or turning power up, knowing he was going to get a opportunity to pass, just though id throw it out there to see what other people thought.
And i doubt we will ever know how much fuel webber had left. He must not have been to worried about it with the pace he was setting at the end of the race.
I was a great RBR fan, now just a MW fan!
I'm not sure what knobs he moved, but I noticed that as well during one of the several replays I watched of the indident. If we could find a pic of the RBR wheel we might be able to figure out what he did.Quote:
Originally Posted by FastFoz
My complete guess would be that when Mark was going to a fuel saving mixture/map Sebastian was doing the opposite to have a go at him. Likewise I think Jenson did the same.
It would still be his fault for moving over without having enough room to do so.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
Obviously Vettel was at no time completely past Webber with enough room to move onto Webber's line. Therefore, he had not passed him. Vettel should have backed off when he realized his "pass" fell short of the mark. No pun intended.
I blame Kettel! I don't think it was an intentional faint just a loss of total control.
Maybe fideling with engine maps or something else that took his concentration off the fact that he was slicing Ham on that move! JMHO
Humm, well, I did "get around a lot". u never know.Quote:
Originally Posted by henners88
What does your momma look like and when were you born??
As they say, whose your daddy now.... :eek:
u never know...
? You mean the Kettle who lost the WWII?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tazio
Or was that Keitel?
Or was it the same Kettel that called the pot blacK?
Nothing that profound, Fettel just got crossed up and inexplicably turned into his teammate after he was almost all the way through. If they were both trying to brake late then his momentum would have forced both of them to take the turn wide Webber wider than Kettle so we could have had a crash in the corner if Webber didn't go wide. Which if handled correctly would have given him momentum to take back the position. None of the latter transpired because Of the Fettle flop!Quote:
Originally Posted by markabilly
That was my observation FWIW
So if vettel was at a lower power setting then dialed it up, was the team fabricating a pass, without letting mark know and not having to give obvious team orders? so many unanswered questions.Quote:
Originally Posted by airshifter
I voted vettels fault, but i blame 50% of it on the team as well.
And as for racing room, how much does he need?? at the point of contact there was at least a car and a half to the edge of the track from mark, look how close they drive to the walls at monaco, this was miles of room compared to their. They're dam racing drivers, that's what they are paid to do, RACE. And mark holding his line was smart, it's called race craft, compromise his entry so he had a chance on the last corner or the start/finish straight was his objective i would guess?.
Nic
Markabilly - still avoiding the fact that Aussies and Brittish aren't the same thing eh? it's been pointed out to you, but you still push that the brittish people are supporting an Aussie, which is the last bloody thing a brit would do! Ever been in England during an ashes series mate? They bloody HATE the Aussies! lol
No doubt the Aussies have issues with "da English", and it explains why Mel Gibson made so many movies where all he does is kill redcoats and other limeys.Quote:
Originally Posted by RJL25
Probably due to an inferiority complex related to being a brit, but ashamed that they never kicked out "da English" at the point of a bayonent as we did in1776 :D
But when push comes to shove against the huns, we all knew who fought against the germans just a few years back..... :vader:
The Auzzie's are close cousins to the Brits, dumped on a huge island by the Brits, many many moons ago. Its like hating your distant family!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by RJL25
actually the ones they dumped were mostly criminals.....the genectics might explain some things :DQuote:
Originally Posted by 555-04Q2
Nah, it tends to be that English like the people from our former / current 'colonies', but they don't like us back very much!
(By 'current' I'm including the likes of Scotland and Wales!)
The blame is on both of the drivers.
RBR wont vin nothing this way.
hiQuote:
Originally Posted by FastFoz
first and foremost welcome
yes I would say the team were sort of involved as well and if there ever was a formal investigation I think that might be the case. If it were true then I think the fIA need to take some action against Horner for trying to fix a race outcome to the absolute detriment of another.
This might turn out to be just as bad as crashgate imo and with a far greater impact on the WDC....but we will probably never know as RBR went into damage control very quickly after their initial telling comments by marko and horner
Last episode of The Killing this wednesday - and I know who the killer is. :eek: ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Mia 01
This year is perhaps RBR :s last chance for a couple of years to score the WCC. Next years cars will have KERS again and RBR has no experience of it.
If they not take it now, heads will fall.
NEWSFLASH - Faulty Towers was shot 35 years ago!!Quote:
Originally Posted by markabilly
Apart from the odd football chant about 2 world wars and 1 world cup, Jeremy Clarkson and some misguided Motorsport "fans", nobody gives a toss about the war any more.
As for Aussies, we love to hate each other in any sporting event but it's friendly rivalry. In fact the most hostility there is between the two countries is the constant impact of young people that both countries ruthlessly bombard each other with. Looking at the state of the chavs we export compared to the bronzed, blonde Bondi babes we receive in return, it's fair to say that they're doing about as well in this contest as they did in the last Ashes and probably hopefully the next one as well :p
I believe the car doing the overtaking is responsible for making a CLEAN pass. In my view, Vettle did nothing of the sort.
^this^ :up:Quote:
Originally Posted by Blancvino
Exactly :up: and yet Vettel would have you believe something different:Quote:
Originally Posted by Blancvino
- LinkQuote:
"I had already passed Mark and then obviously tried to come slowly back to the right. At that time I was the leading car so usually then the leader dictates when to go."
Yes, his car was (in horse racing terms) 'leading' by a nose but he had not completed the pass.
now it is coming out that Horner lied about Webber telling them to ask Vettel to slow down
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/andrewben...ltons_dis.html
as it tunrs out he was asking them if Vettel was on the same engine map as he was since it seemed odd he was faster.
The more i look into this matter the more I feel that RBR is shafting Webber despite MW leading the WDC , the race and his teammate. I'll say it again. Horner is grossly underqualified for being a team principle.
Curiouser and curiouserQuote:
Originally Posted by truefan72