Yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck34
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Yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck34
Yes. The UN with the help of the UK screwed it up in 1947, and we can still see the consequences.Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck34
Yes. The UN with the help of the UK screwed it up in 1947, and we can still see the consequences.Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck34
Eki, not sure if you know this but you're posting like 4 times in a row. Not sure what's up with that.
So your position is that everything was hunky-dory in the Mid-East prior to 1947? Is that seriously what you are suggesting?
The Forums started to act up on me. Thanks to Koz here I found a way around it:Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck34
http://www.motorsportforums.com/foru...d.php?t=138368
I don't know about hunky-dory, but at least there wasn't over-population. The Jewish immigrants in Israel like people to believe that they bought their land and homes from the Palestinians/Arabs who lived there before them. Yes, they paid some nominal sum, but they don't like to tell that in many cases they intimidated people to sell and created problems to those who didn't want to sell. Their goal was to create all-Jewish neighborhoods by chasing away the Palestinians/Arabs.
So should they have stayed in the predominantly Arabic nations they came from, and still suffer persecution? Do you think that's "right" that they were negated from owning lands and property in the countries that they were previously living in?Quote:
Originally Posted by Eki
Basically what you've just said is that that's acceptable.
The US, Russia, Canada, France, Germany, Ukraine, Poland, etc. are not predominantly Arabic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rollo
Israel should have had its immigration policy based on need and not on religion. Like in the 1960 Australia paid the relocation of Finnish construction workers and some others who wanted to immigrate to Australia. Nowadays it's almost impossible for a Finn to immigrate to Australia, if he/she is not under 35 years with a university degree. You don't need an asylum and they don't need you in their workforce, so they don't take you.
Israel should employ their Palestinians before they take in more people from abroad:
http://www.ifamericansknew.org/stats/econ.html
Quote:
The Israeli unemployment rate is 6.1%, while the Palestinian unemployment rate in the West Bank is 16.3% and 41.3% in Gaza.
“[A] recent World Bank study predicts that, if the current situation continues throughout 2006, this may be the worst year in the Palestinian economic history. The average Palestinian’s personal income will fall by 40%, and 67% of the population will fall into poverty.”
- A. David Craig, World Bank
So? Migration to Israel does not predominantly come from these sources:Quote:
Originally Posted by Eki
http://www.hsje.org/forcedmigration.htm
In 1948 there were over 856.,000 Jews living in the Arab countries of the Middle East and North Africa. By 1976, most of the Jewish communities in these countries had disappeared, leaving behind a few thousand Jews, scattered over a number of cities in the region.
During the two-year period from 1955 to 1957, the percentage of Jews from Arab countries arriving in Israel rose to 69%. In 1955 this group represented 92% of all immigrants.
Credible peer reviewed statistics, states that most Jews from the disapora who returned to Israel post 1948 came from Arabic countries.
Again: Should they have stayed in the predominantly Arabic nations they came from, and still suffer persecution? Do you think that's "right" that they were negated from owning lands and property in the countries that they were previously living in?
Do you have a direct answer?
Do you have any direct evidence that they were suffering persecution in Arabic countries prior to 1947?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rollo
The Farhud pogrom which was exacted in Iraq in 1941, saw c.350 Jews killed, the synagogue destroyed and about $3 million in property damage of Jewish owned properties.Quote:
Originally Posted by Camelopard
There was a planned deportation of Jews from East Thrace (in Turkey) which failed and resulted anti-Jewish pogrom in 1934.
In Yemen in 1919, the Zaydi enforced a statute in which if attacked with stones or fists by a Muslim, a Jew was not allowed to defend themselves.
I could provide links to all sorts of things, but are you going to read them? Probably not.
Why are you talking about "ancient" history when we are talking about more recent immigration? There have not been many Jews left in the Arab countries who have emigrated to Israel. The 800,000 you mentioned are only fraction of the Jews currently in Israel. Most Jews who have emigrated to Israel have been and are from the US and Europe, especially from Eastern Europe in the last two decades. The ones from the US seem to be most militant of them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rollo
Eki, so now you're against immigration of Jews to Israel? Why? Are you also against immigration of more Arabs there? You point out that unemployment is high in the "Arab" areas, especially when compared to the rest of the country. So wouldn't the logical follow-on be that it is the Arabs that there are too many of? Or perhaps it's just that the economies in the "Palestinian" controled areas is so badly managed that that is the reason for the unemployment. What is Israel supposed to do about a badly managed economy in areas that they aren't trying to control (Gaza) or have a very limited role in (West Bank). And those are also the areas in which YOU are always railing against Israeli "interference".
For consistency's sake Eki, just admit that you hate Jews, oppose anything they do, and don't think that Israel should be a country. That way your arguments will at least have some consistency to them. Instead of trying to jump through all kinds of hoops to try and make some sort of sence.
Yes, if they make the living of those who already live there more difficult. I don't care about religion or ethnicity. I just want fair and sensible immigration policy based on practicality and need that doesn't favor or discriminate against anyone based on religion or ethnicity.Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck34
Yes, that's because the Jews have squeezed the Arabs out of their homes into small barren areas that don't support that many people. Just like European immigrants in the US squeezed the Native Americans into reservations built on land the European settlers didn't want.Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck34
Furthermore, Israelis often forbid Palestinians working in Israel to enter Israel and their workplace claiming they're a "security risk", especially if you're an under 40 year old male. Some even want to build a wall around the Palestinians.
Hate Jews? I don't hate the Jews, I don't even know any Jews. I'm not even sure if I have ever met a Jew. They don't affect my life in any way, so why would I hate them?Quote:
For consistency's sake Eki, just admit that you hate Jews,
Next you'll probably claim that I hate Europeans because I said they squeezed the Native Americans into reservations.
Why don't you just admit that you hate the Arabs, the Palestinians and the Muslims in general?Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck34
There seems to be only 14% Muslims in Israel, but 98.7% in Gaza:
http://www.islamicweb.com/begin/population.htm
Do you think that's by accident and not because of segregation?
So now no one can live anywhere they want, they can only move if they are "needed"? And who, pray tell, decides if someone is needed or not?Quote:
Originally Posted by Eki
Have there been any forced relocations of Arabs? And why do they go to "small barren" areas, why not other Arab nations? How was the economy of the region prior to it being a Jewish State?Quote:
Originally Posted by Eki
Perhaps if they would stop blowing up busses and the like, those extreme measures wouldn't be necessary.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eki
The fact that you seem to believe everything they do is wrong, and that the "Palistinians" can do no wrong sure seems to point to hatred to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eki
Show me where I have a pattern of ALWAYS opposing what Arabs do (as you do with Israelis).Quote:
Originally Posted by Eki
Neither accident nor segregation. I would put it down more to choice. Why don't they move to other Arab nations around them, if they are so "un-fairly" treated in Israel?Quote:
Originally Posted by Eki
It's reality already everywhere. For example not everybody can move to the US even if they'd want to. That's why there are illegal immigrants. Have you heard about illegal immigrants in the US?Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck34
Here the immigration officials do.Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck34
So Palestinians choose to live in refugee camps and ruined neighborhoods? Gimme a break :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck34
Probably for similar reasons why Jews don't move to the US instead of living in Israel if they don't want Qassam rockets launched at their proximity.Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck34
If I tried to move to your house, would you just move away and let me have the house, or would you resist?
This is a seperate issue. If you want to discuss US immigration policy, then start a new thread. However, I would agree that the US policy could probably be "opened" up a bit. But that is no excuse for people to break the law to get here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eki
On a related note, how many of those Jews immigrating to Israel are illegal?
Immigration officials also make the decisions in Israel. It's just that you don't happen to like their reasoning for allowing certain people in or not. In their minds there is a "need" for more Jews in the region. But you're ok with that aren't you because that is the "official's" decision?Quote:
Originally Posted by Eki
But who is forcing them to stay in refugee camps? Who ruined their neighborhoods?Quote:
Originally Posted by Eki
So you're back to taking up the position that it is ok for Qassam rockets to be launched at Jews?Quote:
Originally Posted by Eki
Completely false logic. Who's "house" was it FIRST?Quote:
Originally Posted by Eki
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/sou...a/10130195.stm
Pakistan has blocked the popular video sharing website YouTube because of its "growing sacrilegious content".
Access to the social network Facebook has also been barred as part of a crackdown on websites seen to be hosting un-Islamic content.
Some Muslims need to learn that Islam should not be immune to scrutiny and ridicule. All religion and beliefs experience it and Islam is not special.
Israel.Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck34
If you insist having the position, that it's OK for Israel to oppress the Palestinians.Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck34
Exactly. Israeli immigrant Jews have chased away native Palestinians from homes and land where they lived first. I once saw an interview of an old Palestinian lady who told that a Jewish gang is harassing and pressuring her to sell her home and that many had already given up and moved away.Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck34
Show me where Israel is not allowing people to emmigrate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eki
I NEVER said that it is ok for Israel to oppress the Palestinians. You and I probably have different definitions on "oppression" though. Even if I would agree with you that they are being oppressed, does that give them the right to fire rockets? Ever hear of a couple guys named Gandhi or Martin Luther King Jr? Do you have any idea of their teachings and/or impact on societies?Quote:
Originally Posted by Eki
But who lived there before the Palestinians? I'll ask once again (although I'm sure you will fail to answer again) when was the last time there was a country called Palestine?Quote:
Originally Posted by Eki
Are you really that thick? I've never said Israel does not allow people to emmigrate, I have said they try to FORCE Palestinians to emigrate and leave their homes so that immigrant Jews can move into the vacated property and land instead.Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck34
Who lived in your house before you? Apparently they are welcome to return and throw you out.Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck34
Have you ever heard that Israelis used to level homes of Palestinian families with bulldozers in retaliation of Palestinian suicide bomb attacks? The attackers were already dead, so the Israelis went after their families. Is that what Gandhi or Martin Luther King Jr would have done?Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck34
I guess you have the typical American definition of "oppression". You think that "oppression" is when someone you don't like treats badly someone you don't really give a damn about and restricts their freedom, say like Saddam Hussein "oppressing" the rebelling Shiite and Kurds or the Taliban "oppressing" whoever folks live in Afghanistan, but when Israel does the same to the Palestinians, it's OK and not "oppression".Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck34
So I'll ask my question again, since you are too thick to understand.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eki
Why are they in refugee camps? Who is FORCING them to stay there? Why aren't they in other Arab countries?
You just don't get it do you? You seem to think that the Palestinians were there first. That is false.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eki
I've said it before, and I'll say it again. There are two legitimate claims to be made on land, who is there now, and who was there first. "Palestinians" can make neither claim.
But I thought the Palestinians were all peace and light?Quote:
Originally Posted by Eki
No oppression is oppression. But you'll never see it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eki
You go on thinking that the "Palestinians" are the rightful owners of that region, even though International law says otherwise, as well as most countries in the world. You go on thinking that the Israelis are the big bad wolf and the the "Palestinians" are all peace loving and wonderful. You go on through your life without seeing that the "Palestinians" are the aggressors. You keep on living in your hole.
This is getting very redundant and stupid. I'm sick of arguing with someone who has to twist himself into a pretzel to make his logic not seem so twisted.
No, they both have their faults, but the Israelis are stronger and have the upper hand. The Palestinians are the underdogs. You could say that the Israelis are the big bad wolf and the Palestinians are a small misbehaving poodle.Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck34
Now that the US has apologized the Native Americans, Israel could apologize the Palestinians and try to make amends:
Quote:
Senator Sam Brownback reads apology to American Indians
Share: by Rhonda J Mangus | May 19, 2010 at 05:06 pm
United States Senator Sam Brownback (R-Kansas) read a congressional resolution on Wednesday apologizing for "ill-conceived policies" and acts of violence against American Indians.
Yes they do ( although more so, they follow supposed leader who do. Of course if the leaders did not keep them there they could not give them lies and damned lies to keep them pissed-off) and if you would actually try to educate your self, you would not make so many asinine statements from ignorance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eki
Why the Jews had the land before the Muslims, they have nothing to apologize for.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eki
They got THEIR land back.
So the Jews got "their" land back, please tell me if you think Judaism is a religion or if Jews are a race of people?
The term--Jew-- comes from the tribe of Judah.Quote:
Originally Posted by Camelopard
Race-- they are just a bunch of white boys.
Religion-- The Jewish religion is named after them.
God gave them the land, they pissed it away, but now they have it back.