Renault get a 2 year suspended ban

Loving the fact that he's gonna face the boot (pun intended :) ) from QPR too. LMAO! Gonna have to downsize flav. Only two yachts and one affair a year from now on! :D

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Originally Posted by Saint Devote

Piquet is fortunate that he did not cross AJ Foyt because he would have been nursing a broken jaw and he deserves more than that - the little bitch.

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Make love not war! :D

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Originally Posted by Saint Devote

What we have witnessed is not justice, but whimsical punishment by a power.

I am sorry that Flavio is gone. Nevertheless he will retire to his island with its luxury home, his beautiful wife and know that he remains the most successful principal of his era.

Two of the best drivers his gift and a Renault team that won championships.

The derision by little people, little nobody's on this forum who choose to emotionalistically celebrate his demise and choose to forget what he gave this sport and therefore the fans, is a magnificent disgrace.

I am pleased that I am not coated by their stench.

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Oh!! you are so wonderful. How lovely, wonderful, admirable to be such a Saint. This forum is so blessed with your sainted presence.
Thank god that you are not coated with our stench, yours smells like stale vomit!!

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Originally Posted by Saint Devote

Loyalty by definition does not include a cost - for Symonds it is merely the price, not a sacrifice.

And we still are none the wiser.

The end of the era of Flavio is like that of Caligula - in the end nothing will have changed.

Those that trumpet Flavio's going are no better than the Caligula conspirators because the FIA is rotten to its core with their secret agreements and selective punishments. The praetorian guard will still triumph!

And so begins the demise of Renault team f1 to become as all the auto manufacturers teams - bereft of success.

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My heart bleats for you - mehehehe!!

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Originally Posted by Saint Devote

Ask Nigel Mansell what it is like to work alongside Piquet - but he was a great champion and if Nigel has never seen fit to publicly react to the insults and neither did Senna then I should not either.

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A bit late, you already did insult the Piquets in at least a dozen of posts during the last week, some even in this very thread.

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Originally Posted by Valve Bounce

My heart bleats for you - mehehehe!!

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:D

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Originally Posted by Mark

As it is, I seriously doubt Piquet Jr will return to F1 and all he will be remembered for is getting Briatore fired.

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At least it's something positive.
Still I have a feeling we'll see Jr. back in F1.

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Originally Posted by henners88

I fail to see why this would have any relevance to cheating in a Formula One race. If he happens to be gay so what? Is this suddenly a crime?

I find people who direct homophobic insults (like Flav) are usually insecure in their own sexuality.

These were below the belt remarks which ultimately back fired IMO... I don't respect Piquet for how this was handled, but Flav's remarks were totally irellevant and designed to smear Piquets public image... :)

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:up:

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Originally Posted by ioan

A bit late, you already did insult the Piquets in at least a dozen of posts during the last week, some even in this very thread.

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Yeah!! but this guy is trying desperately to be Shakespearian, although he is making a lousy attempt at it. He's talking about some dude called Caligula, as if we care.

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Originally Posted by Valve Bounce

Yeah!! but this guy is trying desperately to be Shakespearian, although he is making a lousy attempt at it. He's talking about some dude called Caligula, as if we care.

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What I find funny is that he likens Flav to Caligula and he thinks that it is something positive! :D

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Originally Posted by Valve Bounce

Yeah!! but this guy is trying desperately to be Shakespearian, although he is making a lousy attempt at it. He's talking about some dude called Caligula, as if we care.

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Maybe he was referring to the band Caligula who were around in the early 90s? Surely of more relevance .......
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ln7G4hkA_qs

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Originally Posted by ioan

What I find funny is that he likens Flav to Caligula and he thinks that it is something positive! :D

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Quite.

There are 2 sides to this.

1. Renault as a solid foundation in Motorsport. F1, F Renault, Clio, Rally etc. That gives them huge sway within the FIA.

2. Flav blotted his copy-book with his antics during the Breakaway drama. This offended Max and put him in the line for retribution.

So, Renault get off scott free with what Max acknowledges is an unparalled act of cheating and Flav gets thrown to the wolves.

It's no wonder there is such unrest over this. McLaren have a Ferrari dossier that was not used on car development but seems to have been discussed amongst drivers yet they get $100m fine. Renault commit a similar crime and have the data for a year on their computers but hardly get investigated and get off Scott free.

Then we have this latest offence and they are not punished again.

We have a precident. If you have enough money in the sport and even if the most seniour people commit the worst acts of cheating, you are imune from penalty.

I bet Renault are quaking in their boots about the next crime they commit.

So, is there any prospect of Flavio launching a legal challenge against the FIA?

As for Renault getting off, without so much of a points deduction, all I can say is that Carlos Gohn must go to the same Lodge as Max.

Solidarity Brothers!

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Originally Posted by Knock-on

I bet Renault are quaking in their boots about the next crime they commit.

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Well, if they design another Avantime, that is crime enough for me... eeeeuuuugggghhhhhh!!!!! ;)

I think the suspended ban is good one - why punish 100's of workers who had nothing to do with it

2ndly if my workmate steals my purse/bag whatever at work, is it the company's fault - No its the theif that gets sacked.

so I dont get what the fuss is about

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Originally Posted by ozrevhead

I think the suspended ban is good one - why punish 100's of workers who had nothing to do with it

2ndly if my workmate steals my purse/bag whatever at work, is it the company's fault - No its the theif that gets sacked.

so I dont get what the fuss is about

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The whole team benefitted from prize money etc. At the VERY least, Renault should really have been retrospectively DSQ'd from the 2008 standings, stripped of their points and fined whatever prize money they received as a result.

But, I think we all know that this was all about Max v Flavio, don't we?

In fact, it is so blatant it is cringeworthy. Max knows his position is untouchable.

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Originally Posted by SGWilko

The whole team benefitted from prize money etc. At the VERY least, Renault should really have been retrospectively DSQ'd from the 2008 standings, stripped of their points and fined whatever prize money they received as a result.

But, I think we all know that this was all about Max v Flavio, don't we?

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WTF does Max v Flavio have to do with it?

Did Max force Flav to fix the race? Did max force Coughlan to accept the docs from Stepney?

This sort of thing is just lame. Flav did what he did and paid for it. just accept it. A witch hunt is only a witch hunt when they're burning innocent people.

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Originally Posted by Daniel

WTF does Max v Flavio have to do with it?

Did Max force Flav to fix the race? Did max force Coughlan to accept the docs from Stepney?

This sort of thing is just lame. Flav did what he did and paid for it. just accept it. A witch hunt is only a witch hunt when they're burning innocent people.

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What I mean is, the fact that the Renault F1 Team fixed a race, conspiring with their driver(s) Piquet in so doing, has provided the fuel for Max to punish Flavio.

If it was more about handing down sensible punishments and deterrants, regardless of whether Renault may or may not exit the sport, then appropriate measures - docking of points, monetary fine etc - is what should have been given.

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Originally Posted by Knock-on

McLaren have a Ferrari dossier that was not used on car development but

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No buts..... you're not meant to have your competitors documents and you should be penalised for it.

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Originally Posted by Daniel

No buts..... you're not meant to have your competitors documents and you should be penalised for it.

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A grasp of reality will tell you that the 'spread' of rivals information has been common place since motorsport began.

You have to consider how the information was 'procured', what was the rationale and who was the instigator(s).

Then consider fixing a race, and the wider implications that has......

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Originally Posted by SGWilko

What I mean is, the fact that the Renault F1 Team fixed a race, conspiring with their driver(s) Piquet in so doing, has provided the fuel for Max to punish Flavio.

If it was more about handing down sensible punishments and deterrants, regardless of whether Renault may or may not exit the sport, then appropriate measures - docking of points, monetary fine etc - is what should have been given.

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But as Ozrevhead said they've punished the people responsible and Renault weren't shown to have any part in it and they've got a ban hanging over them. If they offend again that's it. Surely that's pretty serious......

As for Max's motivations? Who gives a ..... we've got rid of Flab.

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Originally Posted by SGWilko

A grasp of reality will tell you that the 'spread' of rivals information has been common place since motorsport began.

You have to consider how the information was 'procured', what was the rationale and who was the instigator(s).

Then consider fixing a race, and the wider implications that has......

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and that it should be punished whenever infringements of note are found. Teams are allowed to draw their own conclusions from pictures and the like but actual industrial espionage? Non.

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Originally Posted by Daniel

and that it should be punished whenever infringements of note are found. Teams are allowed to draw their own conclusions from pictures and the like but actual industrial espionage? Non.

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So, lets look at the two different scenarios;

An individual(s) of team A is contacted by an individual of team B with the offer of technical info...... .........as a result the ENTIRE team is fined $100m.

then

Individuals of team C conspire to fix a race for the benefit of their star driver, in so doing earning valuable points and race prize money, depriving others of doing so legitimately, and then gain extra prize money for artificially finishing higher in the constructors championship....... .......as a result the ENTIRE team receives a cursory wrap on the knuckles.

Remember also that we don't actually have proof that Flavio was the guy that asked Piquet to crash. All we know thus far is that a meeting took place between Flavio, Piquet and Symmonds.

Remember also that the one thing Piquet was good at was crashing....

Convenient, was a deal struck?

Who knows?

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Originally Posted by SGWilko

So, lets look at the two different scenarios;

An individual(s) of team A is contacted by an individual of team B with the offer of technical info which team A then discussed between a number of employees and then made an effort to conceal and then when it came to trial they protested that they were innocent even though they knew damn well that wasn't the case...............as a result the ENTIRE team is fined $100m when they should have been banned for being a bunch of lying little twonks.

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Edited your post for you so it makes more sense :)

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Originally Posted by SGWilko

What I mean is, the fact that the Renault F1 Team fixed a race, conspiring with their driver(s) Piquet in so doing, has provided the fuel for Max to punish Flavio.

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But had the race-fixing not occurred, there would have been no way for Max to get rid of Flavio; and even if Flavio and the FIA boss didn't hate each other, Flavio would have had to quit as a result of the race-fixing scandal. So the personal animosity between them surely hasn't had any bearing on the actual outcome?

By the way, does anyone else think that it would possibly be impossible to discuss a subject involving a more grubby set of people — Flavio Briatore, Bernie Ecclestone and Max Mosley? Urgh.

Where is the evidence? I'm sure that they are guilty as hell but is there a smoking gun? I have read the transcript Briatore mocking Piquet after the crash but that's it.

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Originally Posted by Knock-on

McLaren have a Ferrari dossier that was not used on car development...

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Yes they did. That's why when the FIA checked the new car design in December 2007 they've found at least 3 systems copied from the F2007 and McLaren were asked to change those systems.

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Originally Posted by SGWilko

So, lets look at the two different scenarios;

An individual(s) of team A is contacted by an individual of team B with the offer of technical info...... .........as a result the ENTIRE team is fined $100m.

then

Individuals of team C conspire to fix a race for the benefit of their star driver, in so doing earning valuable points and race prize money, depriving others of doing so legitimately, and then gain extra prize money for artificially finishing higher in the constructors championship....... .......as a result the ENTIRE team receives a cursory wrap on the knuckles.

Remember also that we don't actually have proof that Flavio was the guy that asked Piquet to crash. All we know thus far is that a meeting took place between Flavio, Piquet and Symmonds.

Remember also that the one thing Piquet was good at was crashing....

Convenient, was a deal struck?

Who knows?

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As I said before, what's the point in attempting to draw any parallels — moral, legal or otherwise — between the two cases, or seek any precedents that resulted from the McLaren one? The cases are totally different.

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Originally Posted by Daniel

Edited your post for you so it makes more sense :)

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:up:

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Originally Posted by Daika

Where is the evidence? I'm sure that they are guilty as hell but is there a smoking gun? I have read the transcript Briatore mocking Piquet after the crash but that's it.

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I think we can now say that Renault's decision not to defend themselves against the allegations was an admission of guilt. There was never likely to be a series of documents, let's face it, given that it all happened during a race. And the telemetry is pretty conclusive too.

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Originally Posted by Daniel

No buts..... you're not meant to have your competitors documents and you should be penalised for it.

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If there are no buts about having competitors documents why was one team (McLaren) penalised for that offence, but not others (Toyota, Renault, Toro Rosso)?

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Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

If there are no buts about having competitors documents why was one team (McLaren) penalised for that offence, but not others (Toyota, Renault, Toro Rosso)?

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What has Torro Rosso got to do with this?

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Originally Posted by Knock-on

There are 2 sides to this.

1. Renault as a solid foundation in Motorsport. F1, F Renault, Clio, Rally etc. That gives them huge sway within the FIA.

2. Flav blotted his copy-book with his antics during the Breakaway drama. This offended Max and put him in the line for retribution.

So, Renault get off scott free with what Max acknowledges is an unparalled act of cheating and Flav gets thrown to the wolves.

It's no wonder there is such unrest over this. McLaren have a Ferrari dossier that was not used on car development but seems to have been discussed amongst drivers yet they get $100m fine. Renault commit a similar crime and have the data for a year on their computers but hardly get investigated and get off Scott free.

Then we have this latest offence and they are not punished again.

We have a precident. If you have enough money in the sport and even if the most seniour people commit the worst acts of cheating, you are imune from penalty.

I bet Renault are quaking in their boots about the next crime they commit.

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Exactly. Very well summated. The machiavellian nature is self-evident.

But I think the accurate abstract message you deliver will be lost in general here. There is a very concretized bitter bunch of posters here.

Sort of like Mark Webber versus Jenson Button - grape juice versus champagne.

I have never seen a bunch of people that hate the people of f1 as so many here: Max, Bernie, Flavio you name them - very sad.

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Originally Posted by ioan

What has Torro Rosso got to do with this?

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I was thinking Toro Rosso, but perhaps it was Force India (or whatever they were called at the time) who "obtained" drawings of a rivals car.

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Originally Posted by henners88

By altering that post it is just bending the events based on pure speculation. There is absolutely no proof to suggest the entire Mclaren organisation was aware of stolen data being used. You know that and I know that.

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I never said the whole team knew, perhaps before going medieval on Ioan for being a bit biased you should learn to read.

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Originally Posted by Daniel

Edited your post for you so it makes more sense :)

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So, if we follow your thought process, with the denials from the Renault F1 team, and taking them almost a whole season to admit their wrong, was the whole team not penalised financially for the fraudulent obtaining of prize money?

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Originally Posted by SGWilko

So, if we follow your thought process, with the denials from the Renault F1 team, and taking them almost a whole season to admit their wrong, was the whole team not penalised financially for the fraudulent obtaining of prize money?

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When did Renno deny it? As soon as they learnt the truth they fired Flabio and Pat.

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Originally Posted by Daniel

I never said the whole team knew, perhaps before going medieval on Ioan for being a bit biased you should learn to read.

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Erm, actually, yes, you did my good man....

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Originally Posted by Daniel

ENTIRE team is fined $100m when they should have been banned for being a bunch of lying little twonks.

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I copied your post so it made sense.

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Originally Posted by Daniel

When did Renno deny it? As soon as they learnt the truth they fired Flabio and Pat.

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Oh, turn it in already! There were questions raised at the time, Piquet went to the FIA, Massa questioned it at the time......... If you cannot believe RD was unaware of what was happening, then by the same logic, nor can you believe Renault knew nothing.

You can twist it to how ever it suits an particular POV.....