massa is the winner fair! he should be crowded champion soon...
Hamilton cheated again, he should be disqualified also..he is lucky to be 3rd
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massa is the winner fair! he should be crowded champion soon...
Hamilton cheated again, he should be disqualified also..he is lucky to be 3rd
And issues penalties based on appearance?Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
How about a sport where the competitors decide the outcomes and not suits in a room?
Hilarious.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jag_Warrior
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jag_Warrior http://www.motorsportforum.com/forum...s/viewpost.gif
And issues penalties based on appearance?
How about a sport where the competitors decide the outcomes and not suits in a room?
Explain.Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
this sport is becoming more and more of a show...an anti McLaren show...Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
end of story !
who are these marchals anyway ? Do they have any racing experience (as a driver) on a top level at all ?
Dont be an idiot, you know my post was reffering to the fact that Viktory was making a guess that Kimi would have pulled away like normal comeing out of the corner, but the track was wet so normal goes out the window. Considering how much more grip Lewis seemed to find in the wet it doesnt take much to guess that he could have been along side or at least all over the back of Kimi coming out of Bus Stop. This is all supposition but only goes to prove that we cant take the normal standards of how race cars behave in the dry on a damp track, on slicks no less.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
You seem to have done a fair bit of commenting on what might have been yourself.
I must admit this has really annoyed me. As an avid Formula 1 fan this is not what the sport needs right now, I think there is still a lot of bitterness from Spygate in the air and once again the FIA haven't exactly shined here! It's one thing to punish Hamilton (which I don't agree with in the slightest!) but to award the points to someone who wasn't in contention all race is criminal! Me thinks someone in the FIA may have shares in Ferrari!
This is one of the few races on the F1 calendar that generates any real excitement or passing on the track. Too bad the FIA, screwed up the final standings by giving the win to Massa.
Hamilton gave Kimi back the lead and would have passed the Ferrari anyway, since the McLaren was a lot faster in the damp conditions.
Overall, F1 finally puts on an entertaining show for the fans, which is getting rarer these days, only to have the FIA f*ck everyone in the @ss once again.
No wonder why I hardly watch F1 anymore due to the overwhelming amount of Political B.S.
Sometime in the last decade, it used to be automatic that if you cut the chicane you get a penalty, but the rules are vaguelly worded and one team successfully lobbied that their driver gained no advantage by cutting the chicane becuase there was no he was closely racing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zico
It used to be illegal to push drivers off track as well, but since Senna the FIA has generally been getting more and more lax on driving standards, which is why the racing in lower formulas especially can be pretty crap.
I'm just wondering how long it will take for Hamilton to copy Senna and Alonso and diss the FIA.
I dont know if this has already been posted but :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70rXr2Mkq_M
Here is proof that Hamilton did not slow down one bit after cutting that chicane. Just watch and listen, the evidence is clear.
Besides : The race stewards are able to view the telemetry after the race. It's not exactly hard to see if Hamilton did or did not lift his foot from the gas pedal now is it?
Like I said before. Kimi was braking so early that Hamilton simply didn't have any other option that to... pass him! Or should he have hit the back of the Ferrari?Quote:
Originally Posted by ICKE
After all, Hamilton did enough to let the Ferrari completely ahead of him and this is what counts. If this is not satisfying, then you should demand FIA to change the rules, so that besides letting the other driver through he should also be allowed to build up a 2-second gap...
No, the rule states that you can not gain an advantage.
And Hamilton would have never been so close to Kimi, had he not cut the chicane.
Somehow I knew you'd say that. Your constant abuse and dislike for Hamilton is short sighted and boring. At least some of the blinkered Ferrari fans on here can see that he has a modicum of talent and accept that some of his driving his decent.Quote:
Originally Posted by elinagr
Massa is a decent driver but is not on the same level as Hamilton, Kimi, Alonso or Kubica, blokes who really know how to handle a car. If Massa wins a WDC it'll be like when Nicky Hayden won in MotoGP and hardly anyone actually thought he was the best rider in the field.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICKE
McLaren maintain that telemetry showed Lewis lifting off
The McLaren spokesman said: "We looked at all our data, and also made it available to the FIA stewards.
"It showed that, having lifted [off the accelerator], Lewis was 6kph slower than Kimi as they crossed the start-finish line.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/moto...ne/7603179.stm
Re- The onboard video, on the contrary... sounds like a brief lift at 14 secs to me.
You realize you are talking about a team that commited the single greatest crime in F-1 History buy accepting and using stolen information?Quote:
Originally Posted by SGWilko
Hamilton shouldn't have been stripped of the win because the McLaren shouldn't have been allowed to compete.
Likewise, do you realise that you're saying two wrongs make a right?Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonyvop
I'm no McLaren fan, but independent of any past incidents it was a pretty dodgy decision.
The only crime here and today is the fact that the winner of Spa is now appealing to claim what is rightfully his. You can go ahead and accuse McLaren of whatever you want. Mostly everyone here is a realist and knows that Stepneygate is in the past, therefore, has absolutely zero integrity when spoken over today's incident.Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonyvop
You do have a point. McLaren should go along with other manufacturer's and create a break-away series. Someone else stated earlier that F1 can exist with Ferrari and the FIA all by themselves.
I can agree with that. It's two points now and in Monza he should be able to claim that first position in the championship. ;)Quote:
The only crime here and today is the fact that the winner of Spa is now appealing to claim what is rightfully his.
When will the FIA make a decision over McLaren's appeal?
He's already leading the championship, unless you were talking about Massa.. who isnt appealing btw.. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by ICKE
You ignored my previous post.. doesnt that sound like a lift at 14 secs to you?
I hope you have had a chance to re-read Anthonyvops post and realise that it is not remotely close to what he was saying...Quote:
Originally Posted by Malllen
Simple translation... Had FIA didn't made a mistake last year by [not]banning[/u] MacLeran, The would be no Hamilton on track to make a 2nd wrong...
I'm inclined to believe there is some relation to Hamilton's 25sec panalty and stepnygate... I think had it been any other team, they would have gotten the benefit of the doubt... MacLeran thanks to last year appears to have lost that priviledge and rightly so...
I'm still not a 100% convinced, but this video make me belive a bit that the punishment was not that wrong,Quote:
Originally Posted by ICKE
And here are two frames from said video:Quote:
Originally Posted by ICKE
Before the Bus Stop -
http://www.geocities.com/rollo75/busstop.jpg
And going into La Source -
http://www.geocities.com/rollo75/lasource.jpg
In both cases Raikkonen is ahead of Hamilton... now where's the advantage? I would have thought that if you were behind someone then the advantage rests with them.
How far should Hamilton have stayed behind? 3 seconds? 5 minutes? Since people are very quick to decide these things perhaps they could enlighten me as to how the Scarlett Ferrari is in front of the Silver Ferrari in this photo if Hamilton gained an advantage by being behind him... hmm.
It was wonderful watching the cars at Spa after the blandness of Valencia and then the brainiacs go and do this.
I want a handful of whatever mind altering party substances must be taken prior to arriving at such a patently stupid decision.
Utterly and totally moronic and unjustified decision from the FIA there. The penalty is supposedly being applied because Hamilton "gained an advantage". Hamilton let Raikkonen past again after cutting the chicane as he should have and then passed him again fair end square. In that move, if anything it was Raikkonen that was out of order as he ran into Hamilton on the exit.
If the FIA rationalize that this supposed advantage is that cutting the chicane got Hamilton any closer to Raikkonen than he was, that is flawed as well as Hamilton was already all over him before they got to that chicane.
For these reasons, this decision to penalise Hamilton is idiotic, illogical and unwarranted and suggests the FIA want to rig the championship so that it goes Ferrari's way.
it may even be the way he was hitting kimi's car before he crashed out.
good to see massa in the wet this time who knows
? 25 seconds (equivalent to a drive through penalty)
i think they should decide this track by track
So basically, with the FIA, justice is not blind? With the FIA, there are different rules for different people and different teams? Basically the FIA is nothing more than a clan of favorites players?Quote:
Originally Posted by PSfan
You're saying that the one sport that I have religiously followed for most of my time on this planet is nothing more than a rigged scam? Well, thanks a lot. Why not just tell me that Santa is some old perv in a red suit?
Eh, don't worry about it. I had my doubts about Santa anyway. But what's sad is that you don't seem to see anything wrong with the premise that the FIA is nothing more than a gang of small time thugs that take revenge based on the past. Interesting. Sad, but interesting.
did lewis let kimi pass or did kimi have the speed to pass him?Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Lowndes
i guess they would have looked at the speed lewis was doing when kimi pased him
it may all so have to do with how far he was behind kimi before he cut the chicane and how far ahead kimi was
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/...37_468x286.jpg
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/oth...verturned.html
If you can't see this as blatant pro-Ferrari bias by the FIA, then you must be so blind that Jesus couldn't cure you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rollo
According to what I read on some other web sites (not the actual FIA official web site), the rule states that LH should have waited at least to the next curve before trying to pass. In this case, as you can see on the pictures, he took advantage of the drag force originating from Kimi's car giving him an unfair advantage.I am not aware about what the rules precisely say but, IMO, if the judges (plural) decided to penalize LH the evidence against him must be pretty strong.
So ban McLaren from the sport?Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonyvop
Knowing you to be a man of logic, you were in favor of Michael Schumacher being banned after his 1997 exclusion?
Good choice of screen caps... How long was Hamilton behind Kimi?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rollo
I just watched that youtube vid a few times, and a replay of the incident on wind tunnel (recorded it this time) and now I'm scratching my head? How can anyone suggest that penalty wasn't deserved?!? Sure Hamilton got behind Kimi, but that was clearly to position himself on the inside for the next corner, not because on the short cut he took seconds before, I would describe the 2 cars exit of the cut chicane as a drag race. Thats why Hams got a penalty, thats why an appeal would fail, there is no clear intent on hamiltons part to concede the position, re watch the vids, its pretty clear. And while maybe there was intent to let him by, it doesn't show...
The 25 seconds come from the drive through penalty that's applied for such incidents. Since there was not enough time to actually do that, then the 25 sec. were applied as a penalty instead. That's s why.Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyRAC
Watching the race again it does look like Lewis was so close to Kimi that he had to short-cut the chicane. BUT, why the stewards made their decision is anyone's guess.
Remember what I always say - the Race Stewards are inconsistent and will stay inconsistent until someone more powerful than the fans speaks out against them.
Well not exactly, MacLeran/Ron Dennis just doesn't have the credibilty they once had. So when Ron says that Hamilton dropped off the throttle to let Kimi get ahead because of the cut chicane, and the video suggests maybe he let off to get to the inside of the track for the next corner... after the lying last year its hard to believe...Quote:
Originally Posted by Jag_Warrior
But a team can clean up that image MacLeran has developed last year, Honda isn't being criticised as much over their funky gas tanks, and less then honest aproach when they where questioned about it... So maybe if MacLeran can learn to keep their noses clean, then and not get into scenario's where people can question their honesty then eventually they might be trusted again too...
Um, I know he hasn't posted in a while (since BMW fully took over Sauber?) but I'm sure he's not a perv in a red suit...Quote:
Originally Posted by Jag_Warrior
I find it interesting after all the lies coming from Ron Dennis/MacLeran last year, that we can take the "Hamilton slowed down to let Kimi ahead" statement at face value...Quote:
Originally Posted by Jag_Warrior
Fact they dragged raced after the chicane, and Hamilton conceded the position to be on the inside for the next corner is how it appears on replays.
Not having watched the race, nor the incident (since I had to go shopping), I will wait until the final definitive assessment from ioan before accepting what the correct decision should have been.
It's interesting to see how everyone is blasting everything and everyone around here but yet we dont know what the regulations say in this regard, That should be our first step. Once we read it then we can start insulting each other. Without that knowledge though, everything else seems to be just an hysterical mayhem.
For me its not about whether the driver is in the right or the wrong, I believe that the stewards are wrong to change a race result. Does this mean that if Lewis had spun into a wall he would incur no penalty for the alleged indiscretion?Quote:
Originally Posted by mstillhere
If the stewards had made a prompt decision and issued a drive through penalty DURING THE RACE then the merits of that decision could be argued. To allow the trophies to be presented, and the winning driver to crack the champagne, is unforgivable in my opinion. We must always remember that this is a sport and that a young driver has had a race win taken off him. In my opinion if a penalty decision is reached after the presentation of the trophies then apply the penalty to the next race.
What about the punters who backed Massa and tore up their tickets? There are very large sums of money being wagered on F1 and the racing stewardship, and conduct of F1 events, must be seen to be consistent and predictable and beyond reproach.
I think they announced during the race that the KR and LH incident was being investigated - how long does it take to make a decision???
If they delayed the trophy presentation then so be it but under no circumstance should a race result be changed once the world has been given the impression that the result has been finalised..
I'm a Ferrari fan and believe that this decision is a bad one on many levels but that's just my opinion of course.
:)