You complain when innocent Israeli's get killed but what about innocent Palestinians or Lebanese people?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rani
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You complain when innocent Israeli's get killed but what about innocent Palestinians or Lebanese people?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rani
On behalf of Eki I take particular offence to this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rani
What Eki is trying to illustrate is the hypocrisy of Israel. The Jewish people were victims of something rather horrible. We all know this and no one on this forum will deny it.
So why then do they go and do something similar to someone else if you thought it was horrible?
Sure Israel doesn't round Palestinians up and gas them or work them to death but you (Israel) impose economic hardship upon these people and when you feel like it you go into their territory and attack targets and don't care about the collateral damage. Why should anyone like or endorse such behaviour? Why should the Palestinians think "It's for our own good?"
The only difference between the behavious of the Palestinian terrorists and Israel is that you can dress it up and call it an army and they are simply branded as terrorists.
If only you could see how much risks soldiers take just to prevent collateral damage. I agree collateral damage is made, but never on purpose. Try to get some stats and you'll find that the "genuinely trying to help" US does (and has done) way more collateral damage in Afghanistan and Iraq. While the US preferred to strike from the air (this makes the most amount of collateral damage - especially in dense residential areas, but keeps your soldiers safe) Israel sends regular infantry to the streets a lot more, only using aircraft when there is no choice.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
I simply can't seem to grasp how someone would compare the murdering of innocent people by means of suicide bombings and intentional civilian targeting to targeting armed terrorists.
Can someone argue this last sentence?
Has anyone here ever heard of an Israeli soldier sent on a mission from his superiors to strap on an explosive device and blow himself up in the middle of a Humus restaurant in Jenin?
Has anyone here ever heard of an aerial strike in the middle of the Nablus Casba (the main market)?
Can't you see your views are distorted?
You call it toe may toe i call it to mar toe. If you kill a civilian you kill a civilian. What does it matter whether you kill someone by missile, mortar, plague of ravenous gerbils or a suicide bomb? You're no better than "them"
I find the same things in Sweden; Bonnier, who owns a lot of swedish media, are jews. Nazis ofcourse exploit this. On the other hand these medias are very negative towards Israel, and i believe the whole discussion is biased against Israel.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dylan H
Regarding wheather Iran is an arabic country or not, that is not very interesting, every one knows what I mean, and my thoughts upon this matter is not by any means depending on if Iran is a real arabic country or not, but wheater it is a muslim state or not. This is not a question of what to call certain countries, it is a question of hatred and religion.
As I have said before, Israel has big problems with how they deal with the situation, mainly because they are somewhat mezmerized by the religious propaganda, which goes for the US to a certain dregree aswell. But the main problem remains with the palestinians.
"Religion is only a tool in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict though"
IMO this is a huge misunderstanding, diregarding the very existence of the Israeli state and the somewhat awkward power of faith.
The thing is Magnus. I think we expect more from an affluent country than we do from a paramilitary organisation that was founded because the palestinians are oppressed.
No I don't, Israel wants to constantly play the 'poor me, why do all these bad things happen to us' theme, to get sympathy from the rest of the world.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rani
They conveniently forget that "Collective Punishment" against the all Palestinians is illegal under I believe Israeli law as well as international law.
How can the bombing of Beruit last year not be considered a terrorist act using "Collective Punishment" against innocent civilians?
Oh I forgot they are only 'innocent civilians' when they are killed in Israel, elsewhere they are purely collateral damage (a nice sanitised term for murder).
Rani, what were taught about the bombing of the King David Hotel in 1946 by members of Irgun? Were they not the members of Irgun by definition 'Fundamental Terrorists?". If their leader, Menachem Begin (who allegedly gave the order) had done that today to the US or their interests for example, he would be rotting in a cell chained to the floor in Guantamamo Bay.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing
Yeah, just like Usama Bin Laden ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Camelopard
I have had my share of nice wine by now, and the house has gone to bed, and so will I. I will continue this very interesting discussion tomorrow.
G´Night to yall!
This is in todays Sydney Morning Herald:
http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/bom...345008948.html
I quote a few parts,
"
Cluster bombs are not prohibited in warfare but their use is criticised because they contain "bomblets" that explode over a wide area and may strike unintended targets. In addition, bomblets that fail to explode become land mines that can be detonated by civilians long after fighting has stopped. More than 30 Lebanese are said to have been killed by munitions left behind after last year's month-long war."
"Soon after the fighting stopped, the United Nations humanitarian affairs chief, Jan Egeland, described Israel's use of cluster bombs as shocking and "completely immoral", partly because most were fired in the last 72 hours of the war, when it was clear that the conflict was moving towards a resolution"
""the majority of the cluster munitions were fired at open and uninhabited areas"
.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ........
So the dead Lebanese were terrorists and legitimate targets or just "collateral damage"?
Makes me think of the fact that citizens of Laos are still dying today due to unexploded ordance dropped by the US over 30 years ago. Just another fact, not relevant here I know but anyway, the US and it's allies dropped more tonnage of bombs on Laos during the Vietnam war that were dropped on Germany during WWII.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2...os-bombs_x.htm
quote in part:
"Cluster bombs, known here as "bombies," account for about half the unexploded ordnance on the ground and most of the casualties. Since the bombing ended in 1973, 5,700 Laotians have been killed and 5,600 injured by UXO. Through the end of August, 14 of the 30 Laotians reported killed this year and 33 of the 58 injured by UXO have been children."
"
This impoverished, landlocked country endured one of history's heaviest bombing campaigns. From 1964 through 1973, the United States flew 580,000 bombing runs over Laos — one every 9 minutes for 10 years. More than 2 million tons of ordnance was unloaded on the countryside, double the amount dropped on Nazi Germany in World War II. "Certainly, on a per-capita basis, Laos remains the most heavily bombed nation in the history of warfare," says Martin Stuart-Fox, a historian at Queensland University in Australia and author of A History of Laos."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnus
Not though the lack of trying to find him, he's probably holed up somewhere in his home country, which suprise, suprise, isn't Iraq nor Iran nor even Afghanistan but that good ally of the west, Saudi Arabia.