Renault investigated by FIA !

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Originally Posted by Wilderness

Sorry if I was too subtle for you.

My jest was with regards to the incestuous culture the F1 community has had for many years. One engineer sneezes, and all the teams catch the same cold. Max is fighting a futile battle in this pandemic.

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And that just underscores the point that this type of behavoir has been common place in F1 for decades with no real harm being done to anyone. Teams don't exist in a vacuum and knowledge of competitors stuff is/has always been around in F1 and in the rest of the corporate world.
It is just that Ferrari in their zeal to win-at-all-cost have now opened a pandora's box that does nothing but castigate the entire sport to ridicule. If you look long and hatrd enough, surely you will find that Ferrari too were in possesion of competitors materials and IP over the years. To not think so would be to be naive. Teams have only complained in the most egritious of curcumstances and otherwhise played with a subtle understanding that minor info eventually gets around. Especially with the fluidity of Engineers, mechanics and staff.
Ferrari may have won the battle, but have ultimately caused a World war in doing so, escalating the tensions amongst teams and causing a chain reaction amongst teams based on the verdicts of course helped by the FIA...

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Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

And therein rests a real problem. With rules being open to interpretation, and penalties being inconsistent, how can fairness be applied consistently for all competitors?

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...Which
has also played a significant role in the absurdity of the whole matter. Max Mosley and his juvenile hatred for RD has in effect brought F1 to this event horizon. He and the cutrrent board need to resign with immediate effect.

It is they who have brought the sport to disrepute and threaten to outright damge it beyond repair. These scandals and decisions do nothing to enamor advertisers, sponsorship, innovation, basic impartiality or even some semopblance of an even playing field.

The way things are goingg, by 2012 the entire series would be run by ferrari engines and customer chasis, with only 12 cars on the grid, as everyone else has left.

The calls for a seperate sereis independant of the overbearing FIA grow stronger everyday. And if Williams,BWM, McClaren, Honda, Toyota, and Renault decided to pursue that breakaway series, I will wholeheartedly support it!

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Originally Posted by truefan72

The calls for a seperate sereis independant of the overbearing FIA grow stronger everyday. And if Williams,BWM, McClaren, Honda, Toyota, and Renault decided to pursue that breakaway series, I will wholeheartedly support it!

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More likely we'll see the car companies start to pull out of F1 for calmer and friendlier waters! :(

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Originally Posted by truefan72

And that just underscores the point that this type of behavoir has been common place in F1 for decades with no real harm being done to anyone. Teams don't exist in a vacuum and knowledge of competitors stuff is/has always been around in F1 and in the rest of the corporate world.
It is just that Ferrari in their zeal to win-at-all-cost have now opened a pandora's box that does nothing but castigate the entire sport to ridicule. If you look long and hatrd enough, surely you will find that Ferrari too were in possesion of competitors materials and IP over the years. To not think so would be to be naive. Teams have only complained in the most egritious of curcumstances and otherwhise played with a subtle understanding that minor info eventually gets around. Especially with the fluidity of Engineers, mechanics and staff.
Ferrari may have won the battle, but have ultimately caused a World war in doing so, escalating the tensions amongst teams and causing a chain reaction amongst teams based on the verdicts of course helped by the FIA...

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Too true. For example, the 1978 Shadow/Arrows rif over the FA1 was resolved by a court, not FISA.

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Originally Posted by truefan72

...Which
has also played a significant role in the absurdity of the whole matter. Max Mosley and his juvenile hatred for RD has in effect brought F1 to this event horizon. He and the cutrrent board need to resign with immediate effect.

It is they who have brought the sport to disrepute and threaten to outright damge it beyond repair. These scandals and decisions do nothing to enamor advertisers, sponsorship, innovation, basic impartiality or even some semopblance of an even playing field.

The way things are goingg, by 2012 the entire series would be run by ferrari engines and customer chasis, with only 12 cars on the grid, as everyone else has left.

The calls for a seperate sereis independant of the overbearing FIA grow stronger everyday. And if Williams,BWM, McClaren, Honda, Toyota, and Renault decided to pursue that breakaway series, I will wholeheartedly support it!

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Bring back GPMA. It's time to shelf Mosley and the Concord Agreement.

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Originally Posted by Daniel

With all respect pass meat issue, it's not really something that everyone knew about.

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Took me a bit by surprise, da kneel, but easily fixed, fortunately!

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Originally Posted by truefan72

The way things are goingg, by 2012 the entire series would be run by ferrari engines and customer chasis, with only 12 cars on the grid, as everyone else has left.

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Interesting point. That's happening soon in another series called A1GP....

Renault has McLaren's information? No surprise there - Alonso seems to communicate with Briatore 'suspiciously much'. :laugh: Renault will be more competitive next year and FA will say again that he has brought 0,6 secs. :D

With those spying scandals the possibility of seeing Spyker as WCC one day is constantly rising! :laugh:

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Originally Posted by jens

Renault has McLaren's information? No surprise there - Alonso seems to communicate with Briatore 'suspiciously much'. :laugh: Renault will be more competitive next year and FA will say again that he has brought 0,6 secs. :D

With those spying scandals the possibility of seeing Spyker as WCC one day is constantly rising! :laugh:

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:laugh:

If Renault are found guilty though and DONT get the same punishment as McLaren did, imagine the calls of "double standards" coming from the McLaren camp

Every team, every year, every boss. One of the main reasons that so much money goes into F1 is because of spying. I don't know why the FIA didn't just sweep it under the carpet, it's like drugs in athletics, never going to be out of the sport.

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Originally Posted by DazzlaF1

:laugh:

If Renault are found guilty though and DONT get the same punishment as McLaren did, imagine the calls of "double standards" coming from the McLaren camp

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sadly that's what McClaren are counting on, and it will never stop

I wish all this stuff would go away, and that the Mcclaren fine be reduced to a nominal amount.
Then have all the teams agree on a pact that all decisions regarding spying etc, be handled in arbitration and only when it is CLEARLY demonstrated that the violationg team gained a competitive advantage and/or CLEARLY used the opponents IP in their construction to a degree that would render the components identical; and with no prior development or evolution proven by the accused team of said part that could indicate their own development of the component.

As it stands right now, all the F1 cars are more similar than dissimilar and am certain contain a good number of almost identical parts.

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Originally Posted by Miguel Sanchez

Every team, every year, every boss. One of the main reasons that so much money goes into F1 is because of spying. I don't know why the FIA didn't just sweep it under the carpet, it's like drugs in athletics, never going to be out of the sport.

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I still don't think this sort of thing is comparable with drugs in other sports. That is a problem specific to those sports and this is a problem specific to F1.

As for this case, who can say? The fact that this thread began by saying, in effect, that Renault are guilty before any investigation is in itself rather depressing. At this stage, we simply don't know. What we can say with all certainty is that spying in one form or another has almost always been a part of F1, albeit to different degrees, and that none of this is any good for the sport no matter how 'enjoyable' some people may find the misfortune of certain teams and individuals.