Bitter??? Ron's not bitter! ;) :D
Printable View
Bitter??? Ron's not bitter! ;) :D
How far will someone go to avoid any court action, if they are both told Ferrari will not persue any action against them if they give evidence against McLaren how far will they go, including bending the truth?Quote:
The move buys Ferrari time in which McLaren will continue to be under pressure and painted in a bad light, while at the same time giving the Italian team time to reach agreement with Mike Coughlan and Nigel Stepney in the hope that they can be persuaded to provide more evidence against McLaren. If sufficient evidence existed, Ferrari would already have gone to court.
Here's a thought.
Ferrari was in deep trouble at the start of the year having lost Michael and Ross and Rory and couldn't keep Kimi out of the strip clubs. They knew that McLaren were going to be the chief rivals and had to do something. Then some bright spark comes up with an idea. Send a bunch of confidential information to a hig-up in McLaren, start a spy scandal, get a World Coucil hearing on the matter and get McLaren kicked out of the championship. Job done!
If nothing else, it detracts McLaren from the day-to-day effort of running the team. It does the same to Ferrari, I know, but as they are on the attack they are more in control and should be less affected.
None of us knows what really happened but that doesn't stop us jumping to conclusions. It seems the appeal will be open to the press so much more will become evident then.
On the question of compensating Ferrari for the work they did on the flexible floor and the gain that McLaren got from it being banned, if it was illegal, they shouldn't have run it in the first place so they took the risk of pushing the boundaries of the rules and, eventually, lost. Just like McLaren did with their fiddle brakes a few years ago or Lotus with the twin-chassis car. Part of the game.
This is one of the closest championships for a while and I don't know who will win. Let it be won on the track.
Think again.Quote:
Originally Posted by trevortherevver
And RD can't keep himself from a public and highly emotional comment!
Some interesting parts:
Quote:
In addition to this, Ferrari has tried to latch on to two instances where Mr Coughlan has stated that he showed single pages which he says were from the Ferrari Documents to two other McLaren staff: Mr Taylor (another McLaren engineer who had previously worked with Mr Coughlan when they were both at Ferrari) and Mr Neale (Mr Coughlan's superior).
So did they knew or didn't they knew about it? Or does Ron know what he is talking at all?Quote:
It is fact that Mr Coughlan never passed the Ferrari documents to anyone else at McLaren or told anyone at McLaren that he had these documents. It is fact that no-one at McLaren knew that Mr Coughlan had received any documents from Mr Stepney on the 28th April. It is fact that Mr Coughlan had been told by his superior Mr Neale to stop all contact with Mr Stepney straight after the Australian Grand Prix.
The best one:
And why was Coughlan curious about the Ferrari car? There are so many other things that an engineer might be curious!Quote:
As is now in the public domain, Mr Coughlan has admitted that Mr Stepney gave him a dossier of Ferrari Documents in Barcelona which he took for his own private reasons, he says "engineering curiosity".
I've almost forgot the link to the fairy tale:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/61260
And it seems that Stepney isn't really telling the truth:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/61256Quote:
Former Ferrari engineer Nigel Stepney, sacked by the team this year amid accusations of sabotage and espionage, suggested earlier this week that Brawn was part of a group of people interested in leaving Ferrari for another team.
Brawn, however, has denied any links with other teams, and has said he has only discussed his future with Ferrari.
"Following recent media reportage of my situation and the background and the reasons for my sabbatical I thought it might be helpful to re-confirm my position," Brawn told autosport.com.
"The reasons for taking a sabbatical year from Ferrari were purely personal. After 30 years in motor racing I wanted to devote time to my family and pursue some personal ambitions that time had not allowed.
"Whilst, I am pleased to say, Ferrari was disappointed with my decision, they understood my reasons and asked me to discuss future options with them when I was ready to return to motor racing.
"We have now begun these discussions to see if the requirements of Ferrari and my ambitions might match and to see if there is a possibility of working together in the future.
"After ten fantastic years, the people and culture of Ferrari and Italy is in my blood and Ferrari is my team. Ferrari is the only team or group I have discussed my future with.
"Any reports linking me with other teams or projects are either inaccurate or speculation."
During whole this spying history I still had one kind of respect to Ron Dennis and his words, however it starts now to disappear when I’m following how he’s trying to defend the mistakes his team has made in this mess.
Why he can not understand that "the team McLaren" has a responsibility to if his team doesn’t follow law and justice. It really is not enough if RD do it – FIA has rules for teams not only to the team principals. I am very surprised that Ron Dennis doesn’t understand that.
I think it would be much better if he says that he will take the responsibility what’s his team has down.
Now - he has started accuse Ferrari for their win in Australia and ADMIT that same man who gave this secret Ferrari info to their chief designer ALSO gave them (McLaren) the information according the Ferrari floor in Australia.
AND he did know that - he admit that did know who the Ferrari man was.
Ron even thinks that this "Ferrari man" did a right thing when he gave them this information and he didn't find any reason to inform Ferrari of that one of their employers gave then information .
For me that means - Ron Dennis think that it’s OK and fair if Ferrari employers are giving secret information to them.
That’s the reason why I don’t believe him any more in this case.
If it’s ok to read the secret info from a competitor ones, what’s saying that they don’t do it also in next time? (E.g. maybe there is something wrong in Ferrari design which gives McLaren a reason to make a protest against them again).
Sorry Ron Dennis, but I should like to see that you more straight-backed take the responsibility for your team – the fact is that your chief designer had this Ferrari papers and it's a McLaren matter..
Indeed. It's very interesting to see that RD talks about "the Ferrari team" andQuote:
Originally Posted by jas123f1
"an individual within McLaren". Yeah right, Ferrari does everything as a company, in McLaren everything's about the individuals :rolleyes:
Quote:
Originally Posted by jas123f1
That is what is called a real ooopppsss as in the case of the defendant who says I did not shoot him, but if I did it was self-defense or an accident
Sort of like OJ Simpson;s ego who just had to tell the world how dumb some folks were in tniking this is how it happenned---NONO NO NO if I was to speak hypothetically, the knife would have been in my left hand, ...and afterwards, "I never saw so much blood....."
Tis a tangled web... poor Ron just could not keep his mouth shut :o :grenade:
Here is a link, read it and weep or gloat, depending on your bias
http://www.speedtv.com/articles/auto/formulaone/39142/
Here is another post about Hamie, and the other drivers who are 50% useless
http://msn.foxsports.com/motor/story/7070814
To say that RD could not help himself from a public and highly emotional comment is a bit rich considering all the statements from Ferrari and the words they use. While it's interesting to read another side of the argument, I rather wish that he had kept quiet until the appeal. Rather more dignified that way.
I don't see any paradoxes in Ron's statement. Coughlan could have shown someone at McLaren some Ferrari papers without the McLaren person knowing they were from Ferrari. I agree with his whistleblower statements. How could they give away their source and expect others to blow the whistle in other cheats? This is written into the law of some countries to protect whistleblowers so Are people complaining that McLaren told the FIA about an illegal car while not complaining about Ferrari running an illegal car in the first place? Coughlan was told to not have any contact with Stepney after Stepney told him about the floor and wing. There is nothing about Coughlan having Ferrari documents at that time.
If Stepney did pass secrets to McLaren, why has he not been charged? They were quick enough to charge the Ferrari people who were accused of taking secrets to Toyota a few years back.
With all this carry on, I can see why the FIA is so keen on standard parts on all the cars. Perhaps some of you will be upset that the standard ECU will be made by McLaren Electronic System Ltd., though.