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In Malaysia had Webber not complied with the team's request to:Quote:
Originally Posted by dj_bytedisaster
a) Let Vettel have the undercut at the final stop;
b) Turn his engine down;
...then Vettel would not have been anywhere near him, yet alone win.
So justifying his decision with the specific phrase "Mark didn't deserve to win" reaffirms my opinion:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranger
Mark was never asked. Vettel was brought in to cover Hamilton. It was the team's decision, not something that Mark 'agreed to'. There is no god given right to get the undercut. Mark more than once got the undercut despite Vettel being in the lead.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranger
He didn't turn down his engine until AFTER the overtaking manover. He drove his fastest lap immediately before Vettel attacked him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranger
Vettel was directly behind Mark in lap 26 and obeyed the teams wish to not attack and leave a gap as the team said he was too close in the fast corners. That allowed Hamilton to get past during the second wave of pitstops. Did you even see the race?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranger
It just confirms that you didn't see the race.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranger
I think people forget Webber had turned his engine down in this instance. Its a bit like McLaren at Turkey '10 when Lewis was cruising in fuel save mode and this message hadn't been relayed back to Jenson. Then again I don't believe Jenson is the type of person who would create such an uncomfortable situation by ignoring a direct instruction and indeed didn't once it became clear.
Do you honestly think that type of response in any way devalues someone else's opinion here? We've all seen the race.Quote:
Originally Posted by dj_bytedisaster
Mark drove his fastest lap on lap 45 with a mirror full of Vettel. He was attacked at the beginning of lap 46. How can he drive the fastest lap with a turned-down engine?Quote:
Originally Posted by henners88
Then tell me how is it possible to say that Vettel was never near Mark when he was from lap 26 to lap 28? That's what Ranger claimed and I call bull****. Where's the problem?Quote:
Originally Posted by henners88
I've just realised we are again going over something we have discussed to death, I share some of the blame. My opinion hasn't changed and yours probably hasn't either. I'm not answering this question again so if that's what you consider a cop out then I'm all heart broken about that. Not really. On wards to China and a thread discussing something relevant. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by dj_bytedisaster
Indeed, team orders specifically exist to prevent teammates from deciding for themselves who 'deserves' the win.Quote:
Originally Posted by henners88
I've read the full interview and Vettel should quit F1 and become a politician, he'd be far better in that role. More intellectual twists and turns than Monaco.
A top level F1 driver claims he doesn't understand a team order when he's given one despite being able to discuss and adapt complicated strategies on the fly. He apologises afterwards to Webber then today concedes that he had little to apologise for and had he not misunderstood he'd have done it anyway.
Again I'd have a modicum of respect for Vettel left if he told us that 7 points can make or break a championship and he just couldn't let it go (which is the real reason he went for it). When Senna was questioned about his aggression he retorted that if you don't go for every gap then you are no longer a racing driver, he had the guts to be straight in his answer. Vettel would rather play silly games as to whether he broke team orders or not. He's still a kid.
Back in the day of Senna, the media weren't all over the place yet like these days and big corporations were sponsors, not running the teams. This doesn't make the load of rubbish Vettel prattled after the race any better, but that's what drivers are trained to be these days. Mark and Kimi are two of the few 'old school' drivers, who say what they think, but most drivers are now trained to name all sponsors in every interview and keep up a nice facade. When was it that a driver last time criticized the team for effing things up? Jenson and Lewis took McLaren's ineptitude last year without so much as a snort, even though The team's pitstop blunders cost them truckloads of points each.Quote:
Originally Posted by Malbec
A man like Senna would have given them a piece of his mind, while these days drivers are trained to keep up a facade.
I don't normally bother with the pit lane channel, but for China and Bahrain I think I'll give it a try (it's on the BBC red button for the former, I believe, as well as Sky "race control"). I hope FOM broadcast all of Red Bull's messages to their drivers - it could get very juicy!