schumi's wonderful career

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Originally Posted by woody2goody

Well said mate. I've been his biggest fan and also a detractor of his over the years, but in hindsight it was more to do with the pro-Ferrari attitude of the FIA around the turn of the century. Schumacher himself rarely did any wrong just like Vettel today.

As for his current ability, well I think his racecraft is among the very best in F1 as has been demonstrated by his brilliant starts and general race pace this season. Nico, while very good in qualifying, has been lacking in a lot of cases against Michael, and so it is very difficult to judge them. After all, they are only a few points apart, so proclamations of superiority from either side may be null and void :)

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This sums it up pretty well. I would love to see a faster Mercedes, and how he does, for me, I'd love to see him on a year or two and have him a good car. He can still do things what we were hoping to see. Canada & Monza were great examples/answers of what if we had the same talent we have now, against what he raced with while winning those championships.

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Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

I'm not Vettel's biggest fan but he has not shown any evidence of having the worst traits we saw with Michael in pressure situations such as Macau, Adelaide or Jerez, or anything like the stunt we saw Senna pull at Suzuka so I wouldn't put them in the same bracket in that sense.

As for Michael today, he's certainly not the driver he was. That doesn't detract from his past achievements, and he has improved since his return, but he is not the future for Mercedes.

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How about Japan? If button was as hard headed as Hamilton or webber, we would have seen what we saw in Hungry '10. Lets not talk of F1 drivers as saints, they all do what they are wired to do in the heat of the moment.

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Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

I'm not Vettel's biggest fan but he has not shown any evidence of having the worst traits we saw with Michael in pressure situations such as Macau, Adelaide or Jerez, or anything like the stunt we saw Senna pull at Suzuka so I wouldn't put them in the same bracket in that sense.

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I think he made it clear that he was talking about MS around the turn of the century.

As for the rest, we are yet to have MS proved having done something wrong in Macau and Adelaide. He did though admit it for the 97 Jerez clash. Then again I don't see you blaming Senna and Prost for the same things, I wonder why.

ioan, did you read the words of mine you quoted, or do you just see what you want to see?

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Originally Posted by henners88

Your last sentence is interesting. Have you yourself ever formed a negative opinion on a racing driver based on something they have done? I'm pretty sure I have seen you make comments about drivers where you have said you have lost respect for them based on something they have done. We are all guilty of that to a degree and yes its biased, but would you consider that negative?

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I am not sure. The driver who I don't support in modern F1 is Lewis, but when he does well, I congratulate him and I would never deny his huge natural talent and obvious love for the sport. I am guilty about Vettel, because I wrote tons of rubbish about him in 2009 and 2010 - that's because I was supporting Brawn and Ferrari and he was a menace. He won my admiration this year however, has been brilliant, awesome, great.
Historically, I do not like Jacques Villeneuve, but in his prime he was fast, dangerous and smart. I simply preferred Damon, though.

Yes. Bias blinds. But it is only natural to have it, to support one guy and not the other and sometimes to sincerely believe that the driver who you do support is better.

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Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

ioan, did you read the words of mine you quoted, or do you just see what you want to see?

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My bad, sorry.

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Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

I'm not Vettel's biggest fan but he has not shown any evidence of having the worst traits we saw with Michael in pressure situations such as Macau, Adelaide or Jerez, or anything like the stunt we saw Senna pull at Suzuka so I wouldn't put them in the same bracket in that sense.

As for Michael today, he's certainly not the driver he was. That doesn't detract from his past achievements, and he has improved since his return, but he is not the future for Mercedes.

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Can't help thinking there's something unpleasant waiting to be unleashed when Vettel is on the backfoot.

There were signs in 2010 when the competition was closer: China he tried to intimidate Hamilton on pit road after a pit stop, of all places; Turkey blamed was erred to Vettel with his crash with Webber.

Time will tell how Vettel reacts when the going gets tough.

Good points Wedge. He has shown a leaning to ruthlessness when pushed such as when he eased Button on to the grass. However, he hasn't shown the sort of actions Schumacher has in the past so perhaps we should treat him on what he has done rather than what he might do.

An idiot throws a stone in the lake and 10 intellectuals can't get it out... there's some saying that goes like that... and it would be a good motto for this thread. It looks like GW farted and left the room.