Noone disputes that the objective of the PLO was to liberate Palestine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eki
Noone can dispute either that the PLO used terrorism as a means to achieve that objective.
Means and ends are two separate entities.
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Noone disputes that the objective of the PLO was to liberate Palestine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eki
Noone can dispute either that the PLO used terrorism as a means to achieve that objective.
Means and ends are two separate entities.
Er... surely the 'German Democratic Republic' example shows what's wrong about going entirely by the name?Quote:
Originally Posted by Eki
Of course, but it doesn't rule it out completely.Quote:
Originally Posted by BDunnell
Go tell that to the members of the resistance movements that used "terrorism" to fight the Nazi occupation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Malbec
It may come as a shock to you but in life there are many means to achieve an objective, not just one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eki
In the cases you mention violence/terrorism is one but peaceful means are another.
Before you start claiming that peaceful means were not open to the PLO I remind you they achieved more in a few weeks of talking at Oslo than they ever did in four decades of killing civilians.
You don't get it?Quote:
Originally Posted by BDunnell
But at least it was all legal.Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonyvop
But do you think they'd gotten the chance for Oslo talks without violence? I don't. They had to make Israel listen. I don't think Israel would have given away voluntarily anything of what they had hoarded, and they international community was in love with Israel, so there was no way they would have put any pressure on Israel.Quote:
Originally Posted by Malbec
Isn't there always a double standard, or should I say hypocrisy involved when it comes to nations and their attempt at freedom. The old adage, "one man's ........ is thrown around just like the founding fathers of the US.
What I find strange is that Palestine, a country that was eradicated when the Jews came to reclaim it after WWII and thus became a people without a home.
Has anyone here on this board ever been to Israel? I have not. I only reas about it. I read of atrocities meted out by both sides, but, here in the US it is always the Palestinians that are the worst. Why is that?
Does anyone recall the slaughter in a place named Jenin. Israel went into the refugee camp and it was claimed that they killed hundreds. They agreed to an investigation by the UN but just as it was about to occur they refused to allow anyone to investigate. The totals killed ranged originally in the hundreds if not thousands to 50 to 60.
There was no outcry from the west except from a BBC show I happened to watch while on vacation. It opened my eyes. It made me ponder the violence there and then consider what is a terrorist if the IRA,UDA,UFF and all those involved in the "troubles" of Northern Ireland are now free and actually serving as MP's. The Treaty was initiated by Sen Mitchell and with President Clinton coming in there is virtually total peace. Why was Northern Ireland any different to Palestine or allowing Palestinians some form of a country?
If PLO terrorism was the driving force behind Israel wanting to negotiate then the Oslo accords would have been signed in the '70s when they were at their strongest.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eki
By the mid '90s the PLO were pretty much finished as a terrorist organisation since they'd been ripped apart by every major intelligence organisation and hounded from state to state.
The Oslo accords happened for two reasons.
The Israelis were getting fed up with the cost of administering the Occupied Territories and were happy to pass that responsibility onto someone else within reason.
The PLO were getting weaker and weaker and were losing both support and funding to rival organisations like Hamas and grabbed the opportunity to become the leading Palestinian group again through negotiating.
The talks made the PLO important again as they were the only group the Israelis and the US were willing to negotiate with and the Israelis managed to reduce their presence in the Occupied Territories. The fact that the PLO had to renounce terrorism didn't mean much by then because they'd lost much of their ability to launch such attacks by then anyway.