People Power

Funny I was going to ask the same thing about capitalism... not just for here, but globally.

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Originally Posted by chuck34

Oh I get it now, you are one of those "we've never really tried true communism" types. Give me a break. A simple look at human nature will tell you that will never work, people won't work if there's nothing in it for them. Free markets aren't perfect, but they're a hell of a lot better than communism. Only the people that don't want to take responsibilty for their actions screaming "It's not fair!!!" can't see that. Life's hard, get a helmet. I know you'll get all offended now and take pot shots at me. But I'm just being honest.

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Looks like you took the first pot shots Chuck.

Guess you're still living off the psueo-patriotic notions that everything is okay just as long as it doesn't affect the US, or you personally. Nice going.

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Originally Posted by AAReagles

For the Greek PM to take a different turn, and allow the population to vote on the possible measures that the rest of the world wants is going to be interesting once the results are in.

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It would seem that George Papandreou is about to resign:

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The Greek government was on the verge of collapse after several ministers said they did not support Mr Papandreou's plan for a referendum on the EU bailout.

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BBC News - Greek crisis: Papandreou 'to offer to resign'

So perhaps the Greek electorate will not have a say after all.

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Originally Posted by AAReagles

Looks like you took the first pot shots Chuck.

Guess you're still living off the psueo-patriotic notions that everything is okay just as long as it doesn't affect the US, or you personally. Nice going.

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"psueo-patriotic"? Seriously? No, I just look at reality. Did I say everything was okay? No, just that communism is absolutely not the way to go. Heck you don't even have to look at communist nations to see that. Just look at occupy Wall Street, and see the infighting that has already begun about the money they have collected. There will always be someone in power and someone jealous of that power. The free market system gives those out of power an opportunity to change their situation through hard work, a good idea, and yes a bit of luck. The communist/socialist system by definition can not allow anyone to change station in life. Call me crazy, but I would like the opportunity to profit from my hard work. But if you would like to share your profits with me, feel free.

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Originally Posted by chuck34

Just look at occupy Wall Street, and see the infighting that has already begun about the money they have collected.

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In what sense is this in-fighting somehow inferior to that which goes on inside large corporations?

for those who want to know more about this movement and care to listen to two very eloquent persons: Chris Hedges and Amy Goodman, go to this link to listen to this Charlie Rose interview.
I found it very educational and enlightening.

Charlie Rose - A discussion about Occupy Wall Street

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

In what sense is this in-fighting somehow inferior to that which goes on inside large corporations?

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I never said it was superior or inferior. But the claim always seems to be that under communism everyone will be equal and all things will be peace and harmony. I'm simply pointing out the reality does not match the propaganda.

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Originally Posted by chuck34

I never said it was superior or inferior. But the claim always seems to be that under communism everyone will be equal and all things will be peace and harmony. I'm simply pointing out the reality does not match the propaganda.

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I'm in no sense advocating Communism here, but exactly the same could be said to those who have an exaggerated regard for private enterprise.

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

I'm in no sense advocating Communism here, but exactly the same could be said to those who have an exaggerated regard for private enterprise.

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How so? I don't think I have ever seen claims of free markets like I have of communism. Pretty much any time I have ever seen a debate of the merits/detriments of the two systems, the free market people are pretty up front in saying that the system isn't perfect, there are winners and loosers, etc. But those advocating communism pretty much claim that under their system all will be great and wonderful, if only those with a different view would just submit to the "will of the people".

Look at the OWS people for one example. Their claim is that the top 1% are oppressing the 99%, that if we had equal distribution of wealth everyone would be happy. Then what's just about the first thing that happens? Their finance committee starts taking in money, and distributes it to their friends, others are mad. Pretty ironic if you ask me. Just like I said, some will always have power/money, others will be jealous. It's just a matter of which system allows for economic/political/class mobility.

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Originally Posted by chuck34

How so? I don't think I have ever seen claims of free markets like I have of communism. Pretty much any time I have ever seen a debate of the merits/detriments of the two systems, the free market people are pretty up front in saying that the system isn't perfect, there are winners and loosers, etc. But those advocating communism pretty much claim that under their system all will be great and wonderful, if only those with a different view would just submit to the "will of the people".

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Oh, there is no doubt that those advocating Communism do suffer from certain delusions way beyond those on other sides of the argument, I grant you. I suppose I am referring here to the lack of recognition of the failings of the private sector when, for example, governments hand over large tracts of the public sector to it.