When one considers that Libya has something like the world's eighth largest oil reserves, and then sees for oneself the state of the country, I think your assumption about the regime's finances is probably accurate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eki
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When one considers that Libya has something like the world's eighth largest oil reserves, and then sees for oneself the state of the country, I think your assumption about the regime's finances is probably accurate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eki
I was only emphasizing the potential! We could do just as much damage with Fighter/Bombers, and I am certainly not advocating hostilities right now.Quote:
Originally Posted by BDunnell
There is still time for diplomacy. We live in an information age that facilitates ideas like the committing of your citizens lives into war is moving too slowly. I feel for the Libyan rebels. But they should have known the risk of possibly having to go it alone. I think at this point it's a tough call. A cease fire would be one option, but that would not guaranty the safety of the loyalists, (which there may be more of than many of us are being lead to believe, even if they are being loyal to a madman. They may replace him with another younger madman) or the rebels.
This whole shooting match stinks of what could degrade into the aftermath of deposing Saddam Husain
I just think this is VERY ironic that many of the people practically begging the US to get involved are some of the same people that ripped them for going to Iraq and Afghanistan.
I read in the paper that one of the freedom fighters was mad the Americans haven't helped them already. Well, considering how well Iraqi's treated the Americans for liberating them (some, not all approved); and how well Arab's seem to switch sides, I can honestly say staying out of this thing is the best for the West.
I heard on the news on the way home from work that the Arab League wants a no fly zone. Well here is a clue Arab League. All those fighters you would use without thought on the Israeli's if you had the stones and the ability could go over to Libya and settle Gaddafi's hash. You don't NEED the USA, UK, France, Germany, Canada or Italy to do this.
It is sad that one part of the world provides us with 95% of the world's headaches. It isn't that I want to dislike Libyans, Arabs or Muslims, but the one common factor is they all seem to change sides in every conflict and they often want others to do messy things for them. Just my opinion, but over history, the stories of the Berbers, the Barbary Coast pirates and the like in this part of the world really haven't changed, just the weapons have. Yes, they want freedom from Gaddafi. All power to em...but keep me out of it.
The Arab League is a joke, and justice in the Middle East is a joke, and it will be after Gaddafi and his inbred sons are gone too.
Lets just stay out of this one....it is about time the Arab world quit bitching and making excuses and cleaned up one of their own messes for a change....
That's all very well, but what I find a little unbelievable about your tone is the fact that you seem to absolve the invading Coalition forces of all blame for the failures in Afghanistan and Iraq, and — a rather more minor point, but one that still irritated me somewhat — the Israelis of all blame for their role in any potential conflict with any other Middle Eastern nation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark in Oshawa
True. People are talking about a no-fly zone over Libya, but no one talks about a no-fly zone over Gaza, West Bank and Lebanon when the Israeli air force is pounding the Palestinians and the Lebanese.Quote:
Originally Posted by BDunnell
Coalition forces should be blamed for what in Afghanistan?Quote:
Originally Posted by BDunnell
That is because most nations believe the Isralis should be pounding these murdering fuchsQuote:
Originally Posted by Eki
Let them deal with it themselves, or let the nations of whiners deal with it for a change. The US will be the bad guy no matter what we do, so for a change we should do for the US and let the others deal with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark in Oshawa
As a side note, US Marine officers still carry a sword that is tradition started in Tripoli, where the US flag was raised for the first time on foreign soil after a military victory. All it took was a hand full of Marines. Maybe if all of the EU gets involved they can handle it themselves. :)
I don't absolve them of blame. I just think that going to Libya will put them in yet another situation where they get blamed for whatever happens, whether it is their fault or not.Quote:
Originally Posted by BDunnell
AS for this crap about Israel, the last I looked, they were not attacking anyone. If the Arab world was as worried about Muslims and Pakistan was as worried about Muslims and everyone was as worried about the Palestinians as you and Eki are, then I would buy your arguments. The fact is, the people who kill, maim, torture and mistreat Palestinians, Muslims and any other minority in the Middle East are the same people. Pakistan is a failed state with nuclear weapons and a bunch of radical tribes fighting for power. The Palestinians are treated as badly if not worse in Lebanon, Jordan and Syria by those governments at times, as any Muslim living with an Israeli passport.
Sorry, I refuse to buy into this notion that Israel is the problem in the middle east. If they were nuked happily by the Iranians (I didn't even start to point the finger at them for half the crap that is started in this part of the world, but they are guilty too) tomorrow, this wouldn't bring any peace at all. Because now the Palenstians would demand someone give them what they need to live, because for 60 years, they have been getting aid from anyone willing to give them money, and most of it ended up in Swiss Bank accounts owned by their late great leader. That however isnt' the point of this thread....
This mess in Libya is yet another case of a failed state coming apart, and it is of course, All the West's fault or conversely, all the West's problem if they don't fix it.
There is no good that can come of the NATO nations putting a no fly zone on this country. There was a no fly over Iraq for Hussein but it didn't stop him killing 20000 people a year.
No fly zone over Israel...you guys make me laugh. The Israeli's don't need their airforce to make life miserable for the Palestinians. The Palestinians do most of it to themselves....
If the Arab League wants a "No Fly Zone" over Libya, fine, let them put one there. They have aircraft, cash and pilots. Get 'er done, son.