The US is totally under Israel's thumb

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Originally Posted by Jag_Warrior

That is most certainly NOT in place. What is in place is a stated U.S. policy that any nuclear action AGAINST Israel will be considered a nuclear attack against the U.S. There is nothing that the U.S. has in place (that I'm aware of) that suggests the U.S., under ANY circumstances, would ever put Israel on the mat. Nothing whatsoever.

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Jag is absolutely correct, thank God, on that one.

Israel is under no ones thumb, and if they could afford to build a defense industry even as large as Sweden's, I have little doubt they would not be afraid to throw their weight around.

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Originally Posted by Jag_Warrior

The Israeli lobby makes the lobbyists from the NRA, big tobacco and big oil look like rank amateurs. The members of the U.S. congress who spend their days tripping over themselves to prove that they are loyal bootlickers for Israel include members of both major parties. No other lobbying group even comes CLOSE to that level of influence, IMO. Again, I invite people to read the Cranston Amendment. Now, tell me who else has a sweetheart deal like that? Hell, if I made a deal like that with a bank, we'd all go to jail! Pay me interest on an approved loan that has not been placed in my account yet - but I don't start paying interest on the loan until I take it? So, the bank would pay me interest on their money (until I take the loan), and once I take the loan, they're obligated to forever more continue to loan me at least enough money to make the interest payments? Yes! I want that deal!!!! Please!!!! I bet, magically, I'll never miss an interest payment either.

Several years ago, Pat Buchanan made comments that were less than supportive of U.S. policies that (overly) favored Israel. Like me, he is of the opinion that U.S. foreign policy should be based on that which benefits the citizens of the U.S. first, and the citizens of any other country second. As has happened with every other U.S. politician who didn't kowtow to Israel, Buchanan was instantly branded as a racist and an anti-Semite. I oppose radical Zionism just as I oppose most other political/social extremes. But to oppose Zionism translates to anti-Semitism in the eyes of those who hold the microphone. The message: tread lightly.

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I agree with every word. The level of media monitoring undertaken around the world by or on behalf of the Israeli government amounts to nothing more than paranoia, and it is corrosive. When the Liberal Democrat MP Jenny Tonge made some very mild remarks some years ago in which she said she could understand the circumstances that might cause young Palestinians to become suicide bombers, it was portrayed in the British media that, in effect, she had said that she supported Palestinian suicide bombers. She lost her spokesperson's job as a result. Why did the media take that stance? Because that was the message put out by the Israeli lobby, and the media kow-towed towards it. Disgusting.

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Originally Posted by Bob Riebe

Jag is absolutely correct, thank God, on that one.

Israel is under no ones thumb, and if they could afford to build a defense industry even al large as Swedens, I have little doubt they would not be afraid to throw their weight around.

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Exactly. If they could build a defense industry they would. But they can't so they are dependent upon the US. Pretty much puts Israel under the US's thumb doesn't it? Certainly not the other way 'round as was suggested in the OP.

Oy vey!! ;)

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

When the Liberal Democrat MP Jenny Tonge made some very mild remarks some years ago in which she said she could understand the circumstances that might cause young Palestinians to become suicide bombers,.

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There is nothing mild about such a statement, period.
Muslim suicide bomber handler could, and probalby, would latch onto such a thing a justification for anything they do.

If questioned on it one could say: "Did you not say"- and he/she could respond-" But that is not what I meant."
Which would be responded to by: "BUT YOU SAID, these ARE YOUR words. Are they not?"

Once said, one can deny till freezes, but it was said, and cannot be changed, which means it can, and in the past has been used in ways the speaker, in the speakers incompetent, moment never considered.

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Originally Posted by chuck34

You don't think that is in place today? That is exactly what I mean by the US has Israel under its thumb.

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No, I don't think the US would anything if Israel used their nukes. Well, maybe they'd veto a UN resolution trying to condemn Israel's use of nukes, but that's all.

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Originally Posted by Bob Riebe

There is nothing mild about such a statement, period.
Muslim suicide bomber handler could, and probalby, would latch onto such a thing a justification for anything they do.

If questioned on it one could say: "Did you not say"- and he/she could respond-" But that is not what I meant."
Which would be responded to by: "BUT YOU SAID, these ARE YOUR words. Are they not?"

Once said, one can deny till freezes, but it was said, and cannot be changed, which means it can, and in the past has been used in ways the speaker, in the speakers incompetent, moment never considered.

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The statement was extremely mild. Bob, stop poisoning every thread with your overly partisan vitriol, please. I'm getting heartily sick of it.

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Originally Posted by chuck34

Exactly. If they could build a defense industry they would. But they can't so they are dependent upon the US. Pretty much puts Israel under the US's thumb doesn't it? Certainly not the other way 'round as was suggested in the OP.

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But Israel does have a defence industry of its own. IAI and its subsidiaries must be considered one of the leading defence aerospace firms in the world in certain areas, to name but one example.

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Originally Posted by Eki

No, I don't think the US would anything if Israel used their nukes. Well, maybe they'd veto a UN resolution trying to condemn Israel's use of nukes, but that's all.

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The key words here are "I don't think". This is nothing more than your theory based on well established prejudice.

The situation which you envisage would be in absolute exceptional circumstances because even during the height of the Cold War nobody actually used nuclear weapons on another nation. Grant that it probably came within 24 hours of being close but it still never happened.

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

But Israel does have a defence industry of its own. IAI and its subsidiaries must be considered one of the leading defence aerospace firms in the world in certain areas, to name but one example.

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But they cannnot afford to build delivery vehicles from scratch, which is why their home-built fighter was DOA.