Discontent at Ferrari?

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Originally Posted by skc

I agree that there will always be tensions but as a Tifosi, what do you make of the overall state of Ferrari at the moment. Managing team mate rivalries is imperative but is only usually effectively achieved if there is strong management and direction. After some of the recent issues, what's your confidence level or is it unwavering no matter what's happening?

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Is the team being led as well as it was under Jean Todt? No. But that's a pretty high mark to try and achieve.

Am I worried that the team will fall apart? No. The people running the show now worked under the Todt regime and know what to do. They don't always get it right, nobody does, but I have no problem with them.

As for driver competition, too much is made of it. Drivers don't need to be best mates for the team to be successful. Prost/Senna anyone? Old Man Ferrari used to deliberately put his drivers at odds with each other. I'm not suggesting that Ferrari should do the same today but nor does the team have to be some kind of hippy love-in for them to be successful.

If Massa and Alonso fall out so be it. Ferrari will show one the door. There will always be a replacement.

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Originally Posted by Rodster

I just thought of something. Maybe this was payback time for Alonso when Massa was holding up Alonso at Melbourne. He feels he could have caught Kubica but wasn't able to pass his teammate.

He later was asked about Felipe and if there were team orders for him to move over and he said no and didn't want to ask his boss to ask Felipe to let him thru.

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Yes, I thought that too, Alonso was much quicker in that moment in Melbourne and the result of that Felipe was holding up him was that Felipe became as championship leader - which must be very irritating for Alonso and he didn't like that the difference between them would increase even more - I think that was the main reason why he made his maybe "slightly unsportsmanlike" overtaking..

I cant believe that there is more problems today than before - they are rivals and both want to be championship winners..

:s mokin:

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Originally Posted by Saint Devote

Obviously you do not know the history of Moss. He told the truth about an incident VOLUNTARILY and as a result did not win the title in 1958. Definitely not a Hamilton or Alonso type of driver in my reckoning.

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Of course, one has to remember who Moss was partnered with, at both Maserati & Mercedes-Benz, none other than Juan Manuel Fangio. Fangio was a Hamilton or Alonso or even Schumacher-type of driver, which made him a multiple World Champion.

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I will remind you that in 2008 Massa won more grands prix than Hamilton and had Ferrari not messed up a couple of times - more so than Massa and Hamilton more so than Massa - then the Brazilian would have been champion.

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Shame was it that Kimi was there, as he was many times before, to take advantage of the situation, including winning the '07 WDC and saving Ferrari's bacon at Interlagos. For Massa, it was a classic case of 'his race to lose...', and he did.

Massa was enjoying winning his home GP and being the WDC with his father in '08...

for all of 45 seconds.

Hamilton passes Glock for the needed position and points to attain the WDC, and yet again, Massa's dreams are dashed.

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Privately, di Montezemolo should take Alonso aside and ask him if he enjoys being part of Ferrari. If he asnwers affirmatively, he should be told that any more little bitch stunts like he pulled on Sunday would see him suspended by Ferrari.

Naturally it will never happen.

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Having 2 WDC's, back-to-back, sort of keeps that from happening. And seeing that that was the main reason for bringing him to the Scuderia, you never will.

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Massa should not have given way to Alonso. He should have held his ground and collided. He has enough political capital to that and then claim as Alonso would, that he did not see the other Ferrari.

It might have cost Ferrari points, but it would have shown Alonso that Massa should not be trifled with.

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Gone down this road before, (Prost vs Senna), only difference is you had 2 drivers vying for a spot for the pit rather than 2 WDC's fighting for the title.

Not only do you have a possible mess for Ferrari to sort, but you will have questions about Massa's fitness coming about, with everyone thinking he hasn't fully recovered from the head injury suffered in the Hungarian GP last year. Not a good place to be.

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I think Massa is far more like Moss than either the Spaniard or the Brit.

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That's agreeable. The perennial '2nd banana' to Alonso, just as his countryman, Rubens Barrichello, was to Schumacher and later to Button, and Moss was to Fangio. It may be painful to some, but there it is.

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Originally Posted by Hawkmoon

Is the team being led as well as it was under Jean Todt? No. But that's a pretty high mark to try and achieve.

Am I worried that the team will fall apart? No. The people running the show now worked under the Todt regime and know what to do. They don't always get it right, nobody does, but I have no problem with them.

As for driver competition, too much is made of it. Drivers don't need to be best mates for the team to be successful. Prost/Senna anyone? Old Man Ferrari used to deliberately put his drivers at odds with each other. I'm not suggesting that Ferrari should do the same today but nor does the team have to be some kind of hippy love-in for them to be successful.

If Massa and Alonso fall out so be it. Ferrari will show one the door. There will always be a replacement.

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Very good argument. Thanks for taking the time to give me a Tifosi perspective.

You are probably right but lets see how this fascinating battle unfolds. Looks like being fun.

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Originally Posted by SGWilko

Well, why did he not overtake then - he's 6/10ths quicker isn't he?

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:D Good point that! :up:

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Originally Posted by Hawkmoon

The media had these stories written the day after Alonso signed his Ferrari contract. They were just waiting for an excuse to dust them off. China gave it to them.

Alonso passed his teammate. Oh my god! They must hate each other now! The team will be torn asunder because two people simply can't get along! :rolleyes:

Every time we get two front-running teammates the media roll out the same tired old stories. You can bet your life the first time Button and Hamilton clash on the track we'll be hearing of "tensions" within McLaren shortly after.

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Exactly.

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Originally Posted by SGWilko

Well, why did he not overtake then - he's 6/10ths quicker isn't he?

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When Fernando made that comment he said he brought 6/10ths to the team, not that he was 6/10ths quicker as a driver. The team run two cars. therefore the other driver would also benefit.

But don't let a fact get in the way of a blinkered, bigoted viewpoint.

Not that you ever would.

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Originally Posted by tamburello

When Fernando made that comment he said he brought 6/10ths to the team, not that he was 6/10ths quicker as a driver. The team run two cars. therefore the other driver would also benefit.

But don't let a fact get in the way of a blinkered, bigoted viewpoint.

Not that you ever would.

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Hi Tamb - it's blinkered bigot of biggleswade here.

So, when Fred leaves a team, he takes the 6/10th with him in hs suitcase I guess.

He is a clever bunny, isn't he?

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Originally Posted by SGWilko

Hi Tamb - it's blinkered bigot of biggleswade here.

So, when Fred leaves a team, he takes the 6/10th with him in hs suitcase I guess.

He is a clever bunny, isn't he?

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What a surprise, another idiotic statement.

When you have knowledge, go near a keyboard. Until then, go back to school.

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Originally Posted by tamburello

What a surprise, another idiotic statement.

When you have knowledge, go near a keyboard. Until then, go back to school.

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Yessireeeee, Mr tambourine sir.

6/10ths indeed.......