Williams to use Cosworth engines in 2010

Now officially confirmed:

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Frank Williams has officially confirmed that his team will switch to Cosworth engines next year...

"We've finished our contract with Toyota and we've moved on to a British engine manufacturer Cosworth with whom we have won many world championships in the past," he said.

"They are 50 miles away from Williams which is very convenient. Besides we also like our independence. We will be not under the influence, not that Toyota ever bossed around, but we've just gone a private and independent route."

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Full story: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/79835

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Originally Posted by fousto

do the history
how many championships does cosworth have ??????
How many does Toyota have??

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Except that the company that produced the engines that won those championships doesn't exist any more. Duckworth is dead and Costin hasn't been involved with the company in a long time. The last seriously competitive engine they made was in 1994. Their 2006 engine started the season fast and unreliable, and ended the season slow and unreliable.

Toyota has been a serial underperformer as a team, but their engines have been decent. Not top tier, but reasonably competitive and reliable. The main handicap is the incomprehensible practice where Japanese manufacturers insisit including slow Japanese drivers with their engines (as Honda did with Nakajima's father with Lotus in 1987-88).

Barring some engineering miracle, Williams is in for a hard 2010. If this is a move made because they lack the money for other choices, the team is in a perilous position.

ClarkFan

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Originally Posted by ClarkFan

The main handicap is the incomprehensible practice where Japanese manufacturers insisit including slow Japanese drivers with their engines (as Honda did with Nakajima's father with Lotus in 1987-88).

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Seriously, that's enough of a handicap. No matter how decent the Toyota engine is (which it isn't), Rosberg has 34.5 points to Nakajima's 0. ZERO. Nil. Zilch. Nada.

Tell me again, how many points has Toyota cost Williams by their choice of second driver?

If Williams had had a very average driver in place of Nakajima, even a paid driver who would have scored half the number of points of Rosberg's, then Williams would now be challenging Toyota for 5th in the constructors. If they had had a driver of Rosberg's caliber, they would have the same number of points as McLaren and Ferrari, and would have been challenging them for the third place.

That's serious money to Williams. Running the Toyota engine was not an option anymore because of Nakajima. Pure and simple.

Nakajima alone is the reason why Toyota is ahead of Williams in the constructors championship

Had they had a driver who would have even scored `10 points...Williams would have been in a much better situation now

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Originally Posted by aryan

Seriously, that's enough of a handicap. No matter how decent the Toyota engine is (which it isn't), Rosberg has 34.5 points to Nakajima's 0. ZERO. Nil. Zilch. Nada.

Tell me again, how many points has Toyota cost Williams by their choice of second driver?

If Williams had had a very average driver in place of Nakajima, even a paid driver who would have scored half the number of points of Rosberg's, then Williams would now be challenging Toyota for 5th in the constructors. If they had had a driver of Rosberg's caliber, they would have the same number of points as McLaren and Ferrari, and would have been challenging them for the third place.

That's serious money to Williams. Running the Toyota engine was not an option anymore because of Nakajima. Pure and simple.

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Points well made.

But surely Williams could have got a proven, race-winning Renault or Mercedes engine if they tried?

I still can't understand the choice of Cosworth apart from sentimentality and the fact they live down the road.

Mercedes only decided to go down the customer route from this year onwards...maybe that was the reason why they couldn't get the customer engines earlier..and by the time Mercedes opened up this yearWilliams and Toyota already had a contract

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Originally Posted by aryan

Seriously, that's enough of a handicap. No matter how decent the Toyota engine is (which it isn't), Rosberg has 34.5 points to Nakajima's 0. ZERO. Nil. Zilch. Nada.

Tell me again, how many points has Toyota cost Williams by their choice of second driver?

If Williams had had a very average driver in place of Nakajima, even a paid driver who would have scored half the number of points of Rosberg's, then Williams would now be challenging Toyota for 5th in the constructors. If they had had a driver of Rosberg's caliber, they would have the same number of points as McLaren and Ferrari, and would have been challenging them for the third place.

That's serious money to Williams. Running the Toyota engine was not an option anymore because of Nakajima. Pure and simple.

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The problem is that with a Cosworth in 2010, both Williams' drivers may be close to that 0 mark.

Good engine + 1 driver forced on the team = 1 car possibly in the points.
Bad engine + 2 drivers of the team's choice = 0 cars in the points.

I can understand Williams' reluctance to take on Toyota's "pay" driver again. And I don't understand Toyota's insistence in putting one of their engines behind a slow driver - where is the positive advertising spin in that move? But if Frank & Co. can't afford Renault, Toyota + pay driver is probably > Cosworth + free driver choice.

And if Williams can't afford to pay Renault, that means the team is in very weak financial condition - like Lotus at the end of 1993.

ClarkFan

I still can't see why people assume the Cosworth is going to be so bad next year! The FIA will give exemptions here and there to make it more competitive/reliable, if only to give a two-fingered salute to FOTA.

Besides, the Renault engine hasn't been up to much this year, and Red Bull seem desperate to get rid of it for 2010. Plus Toyota might be leaving F1 and signing a deal with Cosworth now, and working it into the car design is better than waiting to see what happens.

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Originally Posted by harsha

Nakajima alone is the reason why Toyota is ahead of Williams in the constructors championship

Had they had a driver who would have even scored `10 points...Williams would have been in a much better situation now

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Toyota's clever plan worked then, huh .... :) :)

WT

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Originally Posted by ClarkFan

And if Williams can't afford to pay Renault, that means the team is in very weak financial condition - like Lotus at the end of 1993.

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I think you are misreading the situation.

Here is what James Allen thinks:

"[These] decisions show that Williams is pointing forwards with confidence. This weekend they have announced a strategic tie up here in the Middle East with the Qatar Science and Technology Park, where Williams will establish a Williams Technology Centre.

Two F1 related R&D programmes will be carried out there; one into the flywheel energy regeneration system they have been working on for a couple of years now, the other developing a simulator for race and road use. Williams and QSTP will jointly fund the centre and with share commercial revenues. It underlines the assertion I’ve been making for some time that Williams is a team of the future."
http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2009/1...ews-to-follow/

A team which is struggling to pay for its engines will not enter into a strategic alliance to build and fund a major R&D centre. It is quite clear to me that Williams chose Cosworth in preference to both, Toyota and Renault. Maybe they know something about the cossie that you and I don't?

JA also says:

"...as a new engine, the technical team at Cosworth are allowed to continue developing the engine until March 1 next year, which gives them a lot of time to improve the product. Existing F1 engines are frozen.

Although reliability is unproven and there is no track testing allowed, the team at Cosworth has been supplemented recently by many engineers returning from other engine programmes, such as Mercedes’ in Brixworth. "