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I completely agree with you Kneeslider.
Lynch-mob witch hunt against the BNP doesn't really solve things.
Never will unless we get greater debate with immigration issues instead playing political correctness.
All it takes is an issue for the BNP to jump on the bandwagon and thus spread further paranoia and fear to those disillusioned.
Extreme political movements sprout up in democracies where the mainstream parties are not listening. Hearing and reading politicians from the UK talking about immigration, employment and the lack there of, and the general level of discourse I read on this forum tells me that Britain has a vacuum that the BNP is filling. The poor, native Brits are fighting to hang on and the UK has a high level of first wave immigrants driving down the labour rate. Neither Labour nor the Tories are seeming to listen to it. Sounds like a perfect breeding ground for these BNP idiots.
It is the same sort of elitist naivety that Americans are facing in the GOP and DNC. One party or movement hasn't filled the gap in the US, but a lot of right-wing cranks are getting agitated by Obama's full steam ahead to a Hugo Chavez kind of America and they don't like it. Still, to see the BNP actually getting traction with the electorate in the UK is troubling, because I don't see the gov't of the UK being as out of touch with what is happening on the ground in the way I see Obama's administration being out of touch with middle America. Weird.....
The problem is that none of the mainstream parties are willing to fight and explain the benefits of immigration and how limiting migration is simply going to hurt the economy, lower the tax base and hurt Britain. It is easier for all to go foreigner bashing, albeit in a modern, middle-class politically correct way.Quote:
Originally Posted by wedge
It is an indication of how far to the right New Labour has gone that it has been willing to go on the anti-immigration bandwagon rather than do anything to stop it, and few politicians have done more than Jack Straw in that regard. He was indeed an inspired choice to go face to face with the consequences of going anti-immigration by 'debating' with Nick Griffin.
I suspect tho Dylan that the benefits of immigration are mitigated by the fact that the government has just swung the doors open without much screening nor thought to the effect on society. North American society is one created by immigrants, so we are more aware and open to them BUT even we have had our share of friction when the doors are open too far in times of economic downturn.
Governments would do well to be moderate in their spending, moderate in who they let in and moderate in their outlook. Instead we spend too much, let too many in and seem oblivious to bad times until they are upon us. Too much petty politics leads to anti-immigrant sentiment and of course the reason people are let into the country inthe first place to generate income, taxes and GDP for the welfare state, which in most western nations isn't replacing itself and is growing older.
I saw Griffin on Question Time and the sad truth is that there are thousands of people in this country who agree with his deranged racist, homophobic, EU-phobic views. And these people blame immigration for all these 'issues'.
The doors were never swung open, it is not easy to enter the UK and stay despite perceptions to the contrary except for EU citizens.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark in Oshawa
The government and other mainstream parties have all used an anti-immigration stance so they should be prepared for the BNP to take the argument to its logical conclusion. No party in the UK has ever talked up the benefits of immigration, and when studies such as the one released earlier this week that showed that even with optimistic (ie pre-credit crunch) rates of immigration half the population growth over the few decades would be due to organic growth of the current population, the parties still choose to tread the anti-immigration line.
I have little pity for New Labour who chose not to reverse the Conservative anti-immigrant line but merely found new angles to play with it, who then find themselves losing to the BNP.
Well the BNP has found a niche I guess. The UK is a very small island with a lot more people on it than one would expect. I do think immigration policy should be a very carefully monitored and people need to understand the need for immigrants. That said, if government wasn't forever growing and spending more, they wouldn't so eagerly need more people to come in and pay taxes to it. At some point, there has to be some rationality. The UK cannot sustain a positive population growth forever.....
Economically the biggest problem for the UK isn't the immigrants. They are generally of a working age and contribute to the economy. Economically the problem is the retired. And we have the 'baby boomers' beginning to enter the retirement age. Perhaps we should send them over to Canada. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Mark in Oshawa
But perceptions trump facts for many people. The "they come over here and jump the queue for housing and jobs" myth has been repeatedly debunked, but it's still a popular view and one which the BNP are excellent at exploiting.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dylan H
We have plenty of our own. The weekly news magazine "Macleans" this week has an article that by 2030 two people will be working for every retiree. Talk about unsustainable!Quote:
Originally Posted by Brown, Jon Brow
It is all interrelated in my opinion to the reality that governments, whether by accident or by good intentions have so many entitlements that are threatened by an aging population that they are relying on a steady inflow of immigrants to counteract this and grow the population to be able to tax and then pay for all of it. The problem is the government cant stop spending more and promising more to the future generations.
The BNP for sure is not a party I would vote for or support. They are just a bunch of loons BUT they are exploiting the fact that immigration now is from places where the people coming in are identifiable and standing out from the locals. They can exploit the large numbers of Muslims and get a response in light of the 9/11 events and the London bombings. They can go after the large number of eastern Euro's because of the EC's freedom of movement. Immigration may not be any more now than it was 30 years ago, but it seems more visible, and times are tough. Any time a nation is in that situation, the immigrants will bear abuse.
Look to the immigration of the Irish to the US and Canada and the way they were treated. Look how the immigration of the Italians and Polish into North America at the turn of the previous century was handled. Every new group coming in to North America has had to take its share of abuse and discrimination. It isn't right, BUT it is a natural reaction. In the UK, this abuse has just used modern communications to coalese around a few semi-organized loons and get some people elected to the EC parliament. One would hope the people in these areas would be better educated, but alas, I guess not.
You are stuck with em now....but I must note, over here...we are more tolerant probably of immigrants now than we ever have in our history. At least we got something right.