The dangers of an in-season testing ban.

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Originally Posted by Sonic

Disagree with that last one Ioan. The most radical rule changes in 15 years have just taken place and the grid is separated from front to back by what? 1.5 seconds. That's a tiny gap.

The rules had been stable (largely) for a good number of years before this one yet the gap has never been tighter.

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I've got to agree with ioan on this one. That tiny gap is due to todays regulations and design constraints.
...The cars are mandated to have virtually identical engines these days. If one lacks power, they are allowed to reengineer to catch up.
...They all use the same rubber.
The list could go on, but I think you get the idea.

Everyone is working towards the 'perfect' car. Given stable rules, and enough time, any compitant team should approach that, and get really close to it (99.9% like ioan says).
The problem is, that when they get close, they get too fast and the regulations have to change. Also, new technologies make that 'perfect' car a bit of a moving target.

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Originally Posted by ioan

I'm pretty sure they the race mechanics don't work 7 days a week every week, neither do they work more than 40 hours a week.
And there are several reasons to that, one of them being the European legislation.

Every team has well trained personell at the factory at the race track and the test track (less of these ones now).

Anyway, the in season testing was ditched to cut costs, and bringing a special testing team to the track when you have the race team already there would be pi$$ing money down the drain and it isn't realistic.

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Sorry ioan but that just doesn't make sense to me.

I know a mechanic that maintains some heritage racers such as Atlantic, Cooper etc. He limits himself to 7 days a week and works late into the evening.

I was chatting to some McLaren boys down at Goodwood and got the impression that wives and children were not included in the job description.

Somehow, I get the feeling they work their socks off and for the record, in the UK, only people employed by the state work less than 40 hours a week.

I'll readily admit that the small gap between the field these days is good in many ways, but I'd happily sacrifice that to return to the days when we had a variety of engines, variety of rubber, combined with a variety of tracks that increases the likelihood of having different cars suited to different circuits.

These days it just seems to be all about the Brawn tyre temperature.

Although teams are always going to converge on the optimal solution without restrictive regulations, Ferrari went down from a V12 to a V10, and Ford went up from a V8 to a V10 before V10s were made mandatory, but it would still be nice to see the option there to do something different.

ioan: You are wrong.
The race mechanics work extremely long hours in any series. I have known quite a few F1 mechanics and although I was never a F1 wrench I gophered for one team for a while. The race mechanics also assemble the cars in the first place and tear them completely down between races.
Note that this year there is an enforced ban for work at the factories for two weeks.
The reduced testing will just mean there are fewer employees not less work.
As I said, read Marchett's book. Actually any of his books but the one that describes the life best is 'A Mechanics Tale'. He burned out. Very few, especially the married ones with family, last more than a few years. Some do but they are the exception.
Most F1 mechanics can basically do anything on a car although they have specific jobs.
Probably the cheapest way to test would be to only test close to home base but weather in the winter precludes that. Summer testing could be restricted to closest approved track to the factory. That way you would not have to transport a test car to a race somewhere with a load of parts to be tested and have that car prepped by worn out mechanics who also have to tear down and rebuild the race cars.
No race car mechanic is going to let some guy (their thoughts) back at the factory prepare 'their' car!!!!!
Good race mechanics are a different breed.



The one thing I didn't do was build engines, although I knew how to. Over the years I fabricated a lot of things including Mono Bulkheads, wings etc. I designed wings and an engine bay to accept a new and completely different engine. I also fabricated said engine bay. Designed and built many other small parts.
Designed and built the 1st skirt system on a RALT RT1 in North America. Did skirt systems for two other makes of formula cars
Designed and built a fuel injection system, in conjunction with my driver (who actually built the engines at that time) for an FZ Yamaha. Oh, she later became my wife.

I think you will find anyone on this forum who has done much racing will agree with me.

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Originally Posted by Sonic

Disagree with that last one Ioan. The most radical rule changes in 15 years have just taken place and the grid is separated from front to back by what? 1.5 seconds. That's a tiny gap.

The rules had been stable (largely) for a good number of years before this one yet the gap has never been tighter.

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The rules were changed in 2003, 2004, 2005 and 2006, quite serious changes, still there was no close field.

This season the field is only bunched up because RBR, Ferrari and McLaren didn't design their cars with a DD diffuser in mind. I have no doubts that the gaps would have been easily over 2 seconds if the FIA wouldn't have accepted the DD diffusers. Just wait and see, next year there will be changes again and we'll see how big the gaps will be.

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Originally Posted by Easy Drifter

ioan: You are wrong.

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All I know is that the laws do not allow for more than 40 work hours in the EU.

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Originally Posted by Knock-on

Sorry ioan but that just doesn't make sense to me.

I know a mechanic that maintains some heritage racers such as Atlantic, Cooper etc. He limits himself to 7 days a week and works late into the evening.

I was chatting to some McLaren boys down at Goodwood and got the impression that wives and children were not included in the job description.

Somehow, I get the feeling they work their socks off and for the record, in the UK, only people employed by the state work less than 40 hours a week.

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They might brake the laws or found a way to circumvent them, but they really aren't allowed to make people work more than 40 hours a week in the EU.

If someone is self employed than he/she can work as much as they want, but if they work for and are paid by someone else they aren't allowed to.

The laws were made like this in order to have the companies recruit more people instead of make fewer work more.

I only once talked to a guy who use to work for Ferrari where he was making CF parts, he never complained about having to work to much, he's only problem was that his family was in France while he had to work in Italy.

Anyway, I would really like to know what are the terms of their contracts.

Without getting into trouble with the moderators all I will say is you do not know what you are talking about in relation to the race mechanics.
And they do not care what the EU says. Not true race mechanics.

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Originally Posted by V12

I'll readily admit that the small gap between the field these days is good in many ways, but I'd happily sacrifice that to return to the days when we had a variety of engines, variety of rubber, combined with a variety of tracks that increases the likelihood of having different cars suited to different circuits.

These days it just seems to be all about the Brawn tyre temperature.

Although teams are always going to converge on the optimal solution without restrictive regulations, Ferrari went down from a V12 to a V10, and Ford went up from a V8 to a V10 before V10s were made mandatory, but it would still be nice to see the option there to do something different.

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Well next year, even with the current regulations, the gaps are going to be a lot bigger since for sure the new teams will not produce competitive cars with customer engines and limited resources. I liked the era of variety but I'm afraid that's in the past, it's just too expensive.

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Originally Posted by Easy Drifter

Without getting into trouble with the moderators all I will say is you do not know what you are talking about in relation to the race mechanics.
And they do not care what the EU says. Not true race mechanics.

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I just say what the laws are around here, where all F1 teams are based. I'm not a race mechanic and don't even want to be one.