Kovy should've won the race?

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Originally Posted by truefan72

That being said, the car was still more than a mtach for the STR ( I' can;t beleive I saying this..) and if Hamilton could find a way with a heavier fule load and a longer stint on ttyres to get up there then surely Kovy could have found a way past Vettel with a McLaren. I am pretty sure that if Hamilton was sitting Second he would have passed Vettel or at the veryworst given him a stiff challenge for the win.

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Yeah but we're talking about different circumstances.

Hamilton found his way past slower cars. Vettel was consistantly in the top 3 fastest cars lap by lap. Hamilton was fighting with cars down in 8th, 9th, 10th etc etc.

So obviously he came through much quicker, as they were travelling 2-3s slower than Vettel. If you look at Hamiltons pace near the end, it was simply not sustainable.

I think maybe Hamilton would have been able to win if he started up the grid, but just pointing out we shouldn't give Kovi too much of a hard time for his performance in Monza.

Albeit I do think he has been disappointing this season.

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Originally Posted by Valve Bounce

No reason to criticise Kovi - he drove exceedingly well under difficult circumstances. However, to say he shoulda won is just plain nonsense - he was beaten in all respects by a better drive by Vettel in a Torro Rosso, no less.

Let's put this into perspective and stop the Shooda, cooda wooda jive.

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Originally Posted by theugsquirrel

Could be that the Toro Rosso was simply the vest car for the conditions. They qualified the best (1st and 4th) out of anyone as well.

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Not the first time Kovy's been beaten by drivers in second tier teams:

France - beaten to podium by Trulli

Valencia - beaten to podium by Kubica

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Originally Posted by PolePosition_1

Yeah but we're talking about different circumstances.

Hamilton found his way past slower cars. Vettel was consistantly in the top 3 fastest cars lap by lap. Hamilton was fighting with cars down in 8th, 9th, 10th etc etc.

So obviously he came through much quicker, as they were travelling 2-3s slower than Vettel. If you look at Hamiltons pace near the end, it was simply not sustainable.

I think maybe Hamilton would have been able to win if he started up the grid, but just pointing out we shouldn't give Kovi too much of a hard time for his performance in Monza.

Albeit I do think he has been disappointing this season.

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Don't quite agree there mate.

Lewis had closed up on SV when they had both full wets on and had stopped once so he was faster.

Weather forecast was for mnore rain so McLaren may have got away with Inters on their one and only stop but went for full wets instead.

Then, the rain failed to make a appearance and SV had the perfect window to change to inters.

Lewis's tyres started to go and he had to make an unscheduled stop for tyres.

I watched the race on my PC with half the screen on the web telecast and half on F1.com's Live Timing, and kept a check on the gap between Vettel and the two McLarens.

When the pit stops were taken into consideration, neither McLaren ever looked like catching Vettel.

So let's cut the BS right now about anybody kooda, wooda, shooda caught Vettel - it was never going to happen. Those who turned up for the chat during the race discussed this point throughout the race.

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Originally Posted by truefan72

good points and he has shown some aggression in a couple of races, but overall his performances have been wanting in comparison to the other top 3 guys out there ( although kimi hasn't been on form these past couple of weeks. But he's the current WDC and has a lengthy resume of phenominal racing, even in a weaker McLaren in years past)
He just hasn't displayed the gumption to fight for wins and or haul in more points for the team. I

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So, is it why MclLaen signed a new contract with him? They needed a solid #2 so that LH would not have any problems in competing with his own team mate? The answer is obvious; YES

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Originally Posted by mstillhere

So, is it why MclLaen signed a new contract with him? They needed a solid #2 so that LH would not have any problems in competing with his own team mate? The answer is obvious; YES

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To be honest to McLaren, they first tried to sign Rosberg but didn't work out, than they tried their luck with Vettel, and it didn't work out either!
Than, given that MS said he won't come back to racing in F1, Ronnie and Norbi took another look around the driver market and spotted this jobless Finnish driver! ;)
FGS he was only McLaren's 3rd choice.

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Originally Posted by ioan

FGS he was only McLaren's 3rd choice.

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So you say. Why is it so important to put them in order? Whatever the reasons for a driver signing or not, the fact remains that Kovalainen is a McLaren driver.

Heikki clearly looked disappointed at Monza. He probably felt it was a missed opportunity, particularly as he had outperformed the championship contenders in qualifying. He knows he is in a car capable of winning, and so far he's done ok, but should be doing better.

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Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

So you say. Why is it so important to put them in order?

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That's the order in which they were offered a contract by McLaren, according to the press (and I'm not talking about BILD here just in case you are wiling to go down that route).
Let's make it simple:
1.If Rosberg and Williams would have accepted than it would have been game over for Vettel and Heikki.
2.If then Vettel and Red Bull would have picked up and signed the contract than Heikki would have been at maximum a test driver this season.

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Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

Whatever the reasons for a driver signing or not, the fact remains that Kovalainen is a McLaren driver.

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Yes he is, and on top of that he's the weakest driver they had for a very long period! :laugh:

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Originally Posted by Valve Bounce

I watched the race on my PC with half the screen on the web telecast and half on F1.com's Live Timing, and kept a check on the gap between Vettel and the two McLarens.

When the pit stops were taken into consideration, neither McLaren ever looked like catching Vettel.

So let's cut the BS right now about anybody kooda, wooda, shooda caught Vettel - it was never going to happen. Those who turned up for the chat during the race discussed this point throughout the race.

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Sorry Valve, this is not how I remembered it.

Lewis was not far from SV before he stopped for his first stop.

Seb still had a stop to make and Lewis was on fresh wets. If it had of rained, I think that Lewis would have had him but that is only opinion.

BTW, just how far behind Seb was Lewis at the end? I believe it was less than 30 seconds even though he was involved in the Massa train for quite a few laps.

Take an unscheduled stop out and where would he have been?

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Originally Posted by ioan

2.If then Vettel and Red Bull would have picked up and signed the contract than Heikki would have been at maximum a test driver this season.

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Test driver? IIRC he would have replaced Trulli at Toyota. Thank goodness he didn't finish Jarno's career, because this season has proven HK wouldn't have proven to be a better choice. :p :