The Ferrari thread !

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7th October 2010, 03:46
Firstgear

Quote:

Originally Posted by mstillhere

They are not in the business to make pilots famous. These people get hired to work for Ferrari. They get paid really well but in the end they have to make Ferrari the winner. End of the story. If they don't like it they can always go racing somewhere else.

mstillhere, this seems to be a contradiction. If "making Ferrari the winner" is the objective, then WCC should be the only goal. Maximizing constructors points doesn't require a certain pilot to always be ahead of the other. All it requires is that they both get as close to the front as possible. Which one is in front, relative to the other, bears no significance.

The only time you'd be concerned about consistently placing one pilot above the other is if your objective is the WDC. Doing this strives to "make the pilot famous".

So...having a #1 early on, means you're going for the WDC.
Treating 'em equal means WCC is more important.
7th October 2010, 04:20
Tazio

Quote:

Originally Posted by Firstgear

mstillhere, this seems to be a contradiction. If "making Ferrari the winner" is the objective, then WCC should be the only goal. Maximizing constructors points doesn't require a certain pilot to always be ahead of the other. All it requires is that they both get as close to the front as possible. Which one is in front, relative to the other, bears no significance.

The only time you'd be concerned about consistently placing one pilot above the other is if your objective is the WDC. Doing this strives to "make the pilot famous".

So...having a #1 early on, means you're going for the WDC.
Treating 'em equal means WCC is more important.

I think the distinction is that Ferrari believe they can do both. Judging by recent history they have good reason to believe this. I think that is what all the top teams want with their current driver line-ups. I just don't think they expected their number 2's to over achieve, or is it their number ones to under-achieve? In Fred Ferrari believe they have "The One" If Massa would have been beaten by Kimi all the seasons he would be more accepting of his place.
Fred is a god-send to Ferrari. He is a hard working Southern European that is also a speaker of the native language as opposed to Kimi (not Massa)
His monetary value to them is huge.
I understand why many on this forum don't like the arrangement. But I think it is perfect. Remember it took Mike and RB, JT, and Co. a couple years to win it all. This is the path Ferrari is trying to take now! JMHO

It's their team. If you don't agree with it don't support them. ;)
7th October 2010, 07:57
DexDexter

Quote:

Originally Posted by henners88

The more I think about it the more I think credit should go to Alonso for arriving in a team and ensuring a dominant attitude gets him in the prime position. Felipe is known as a nice guy and a very good driver, but he doesn't come across as a guy who could put the fear of god into his mechanics IMO. Although I don't agree with the way the team orders were dished out, I do think Alonso has done well to make himself as the teams number one.

I agree, he now has want he wants and in that respect he's done much better than Kimi did. Räikkönen didn't want to win at all costs, he just wanted to drive whereas Fernando wants to win the WDC, even if it takes bending the regulations and being unfair towards his team mate. His attitude resembles Schumacher and the Tifoso loved him so.....
7th October 2010, 11:07
ArrowsFA1

Quote:

Originally Posted by mstillhere

McLaren, RD and LH are not saints. Everyone knows that.

Who is a saint in the F1 paddock :confused: :p
7th October 2010, 15:56
Tazio

‘Ferrari won’t turn me into a Barrichello’ – Massa

http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-news/2...ichello-massa/

Quote:

“If that happens, I will give up racing for Ferrari; I never start a race hoping to come second and I’m sure I could win next year.”

Strong words from Felipe.

I wonder if he has always felt that way. Mike and him got along quite well.
But I'm pretty sure he knew he was #2.
And why is it that Bild gets all the good stories? :confused: :cool:
7th October 2010, 16:11
Tazio

Wow :eek: :eek:
The bullets have turned into mortar rounds.
I love a good soap opera :)

Quote:

In football, a vote of confidence is more often than not followed by swift dismissal, and while the outcome for Massa may not be so brutally final, the very fact Di Montezemolo felt compelled to make it in the first place arguably does not bode well.

Massa claims his struggles this season have been down to his failure to get to grips with his car's tyres. The 29-year-old has vowed next year will be better, and says he has no intention of becoming a number two driver to Alonso on a regular basis.

It is to be hoped that Massa can turn around his form, as there are few who would begrudge him success after he missed out on the 2008 championship to Lewis Hamilton by a single point and narrowly cheated death in a freak qualifying accident at last year's Hungarian Grand Prix.

Yet it is difficult to escape the feeling that Massa will never thrive against Alonso in the same way that he did when teamed with Kimi Raikkonen between 2007 and 2009.

After Raikkonen won the title in 2007, Massa enjoyed a period of sustained superiority over the Finn which was only ended by his Hungary accident.

Returning to action at the start of this season, Massa was confronted with a new team-mate in Alonso who was far more motivated and performing at a higher level than Raikkonen, who appeared to tire of F1 in his final few months at Ferrari.

The task has sadly been beyond the Brazilian, and by the time of the German Grand Prix in July - just over halfway through the season - he found himself in a position where he was already regarded as Alonso's wing man, and was asked to gift the lead and the victory to his team-mate.

It was a moment that could yet shape the destiny of the 2010 season. When the shouting stops in Abu Dhabi on November 14, those seven extra points could be the difference between Alonso winning the title and not.

Should that scenario play out, the importance of team orders - love them or loathe them - will be firmly underscored, and will justify the Scuderia's controversial actions at Hockenheim.

http://www.sportinglife.com/formula1...TO_Column.html
:s ailor: Let the mud slinging begin.
7th October 2010, 16:59
DexDexter

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tazio

Wow :eek: :eek:
The bullets have turned into mortar rounds.
I love a good soap opera :)

http://www.sportinglife.com/formula1...TO_Column.html
:s ailor: Let the mud slinging begin.

What a joke of an article. "Räikkönen who appeared tire of F1 in his final few months of ..." :D Winning a race and having a string of podium finishes with a car that hadn't been developed in months surely suggests that.
7th October 2010, 17:23
Firstgear

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tazio

http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-news/2...ichello-massa/

Strong words from Felipe.

I wonder if he has always felt that way. Mike and him got along quite well.
But I'm pretty sure he knew he was #2.

What's worse, being a #2 or not knowing you're a #2.
Sad situation for Massa - if Alonso can stay in the hunt, Filipe may be eating those words quite soon.
7th October 2010, 18:20
Tazio

Quote:

Originally Posted by DexDexter

What a joke of an article. "Räikkönen who appeared tire of F1 in his final few months of ..." :D Winning a race and having a string of podium finishes with a car that hadn't been developed in months surely suggests that.

That part of the article is definately unfair to Kimi. In fact When Fred was down early in the season he pointed out how a team can turn things around at the end of the season and used Kimi as an example.
One does have to wonder if FM didn't have an injury if Kimi would have beaten him.
As for motivation, that is only something a real insider could claim.
7th October 2010, 22:01
Tazio

That's exactly what I was pointing out!. That's got nothimg to what the Spainiard could run in the corners!@! :vader:
8th October 2010, 03:00
mstillhere

Quote:

Originally Posted by Firstgear

mstillhere, this seems to be a contradiction. If "making Ferrari the winner" is the objective, then WCC should be the only goal. Maximizing constructors points doesn't require a certain pilot to always be ahead of the other. All it requires is that they both get as close to the front as possible. Which one is in front, relative to the other, bears no significance.

The only time you'd be concerned about consistently placing one pilot above the other is if your objective is the WDC. Doing this strives to "make the pilot famous".

So...having a #1 early on, means you're going for the WDC.
Treating 'em equal means WCC is more important.

What I am trying to say is that for Ferrari the equal treatment of the pilots is not part of their running of the business. They definetly want their more skilled pilot to win but not interested, at least that's my reading in having both pilots competing. A competition that could show how skilled both pilots are but that in the end could actually lose Ferrari both champioships. See for example the RB results after Vettel and Webber took each other out. Good for the sport but bad for RB.
8th October 2010, 03:03
mstillhere

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tazio

I think the distinction is that Ferrari believe they can do both. Judging by recent history they have good reason to believe this. I think that is what all the top teams want with their current driver line-ups. I just don't think they expected their number 2's to over achieve, or is it their number ones to under-achieve? In Fred Ferrari believe they have "The One" If Massa would have been beaten by Kimi all the seasons he would be more accepting of his place.
Fred is a god-send to Ferrari. He is a hard working Southern European that is also a speaker of the native language as opposed to Kimi (not Massa)
His monetary value to them is huge.
I understand why many on this forum don't like the arrangement. But I think it is perfect. Remember it took Mike and RB, JT, and Co. a couple years to win it all. This is the path Ferrari is trying to take now! JMHO

It's their team. If you don't agree with it don't support them. ;)

Exactly.
8th October 2010, 03:04
mstillhere

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

Who is a saint in the F1 paddock :confused: :p

MS :)
8th October 2010, 03:13
mstillhere

Quote:

Originally Posted by DexDexter

I agree, he now has want he wants and in that respect he's done much better than Kimi did. Räikkönen didn't want to win at all costs, he just wanted to drive whereas Fernando wants to win the WDC, even if it takes bending the regulations and being unfair towards his team mate. His attitude resembles Schumacher and the Tifoso loved him so.....

I don't intimately know Kimi as a professional obviously but based on what I have been reading he races to win but that's it: he races. He feels/felt that the part concerning working with the engineers and mechanics the fine tuning of the car etc. was not part of his responsibilities. Maybe, and that's a big maeby, that's how he operated at McLaren. Ferrari I think sees some MS in Alonso in terms of how serioulsy he takes racing. Interestingly enough both MS and Alonso want desperately be driver #1. Both are meticulous about the car preparation and both developpe a very strong rapport with their engineers. I have a feeling that Lewis might like that too. If true though, McLaren has done a worderful job in hiding it. Only history will tell.
8th October 2010, 08:56
Tazio

Quote:

Originally Posted by henners88

Apparently this article has been badly translated with abit of artistic license according to Felipe. Are the Bild linked with this story by any chance. :s mokin:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tazio

That's exactly what I was pointing out!. That's got nothimg to what the Spainiard could run in the corners!@!....... :confused: :p

Angry Massa hits out at newspaper misquote

Quote:

"I am very open about what I said, but it wasn't that. I was upset with what came into the press, because it's not nice to read an interview and it's completely the opposite of the truth. The question was 'would you accept being a second driver' and I said 'no because I race to win'."

Massa's team-mate Fernando Alonso accused the newspaper of being part of an attempt to destabilise Ferrari for the benefit of Sebastian Vettel. "I don't think we are going to get nervous about what is said by a newspaper from a country with a driver in the fight for the title," he said.

http://en.espnf1.com/ferrari/motorsp...ml?CMP=OTC-RSS
:burn: :burn:
25th October 2010, 12:36
Tazio

Going into the race with the grid positions that they qualified in the result is fantastic, mainly due to staying out of trouble. Massa drove a solid race even if he only had one on track pass (Button) And Fred drove a very intelligent race and was able to manage his tires better than Felipe, and also had only one on track pass (The Boss) even if it was a gift ;)
Congrat's to both drivers

:s ailor: Hail Caesar

http://www.elpais.com/recorte/200610...lor_Oviedo.jpg
25th October 2010, 14:05
wedge

Forza Ferrari, Forza Fernando!

FER-NAN-DO!

FER-NAN-DO!

FER-NAN-DO!

FER-NAN-DO!
25th October 2010, 18:46
donKey jote

Avanti Fernando !
25th October 2010, 18:53
Big Ben

Quote:

Originally Posted by wedge

Forza Ferrari, Forza Fernando!

FER-NAN-DO!

FER-NAN-DO!

FER-NAN-DO!

FER-NAN-DO!

so what's with the flag wedge? are you some kind under cover agent? what you write doesn´t go well with the flag :laugh:
25th October 2010, 19:07
Tazio

Quote:

Originally Posted by donKey jote

Avanti Fernando !

I blew French Roast out of my nostrils when Fred said Avanti like all serious in a baritone voice (I think he cracked himself up) :p :
That rates just under the Gorilla dance he did on top of the Renault.
That guy is such a cut-up :)

It's at 3:43 of the YouTube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7yXugn_p_ag
26th October 2010, 01:52
Duchess

Si, avanti Fernando avanti!! His insane laugh after he crossed the line was the exact same as mine, I loved it. :laugh:

I'm still holding to what DC & EJ said after Bahrain where it's been a trend that the driver who wins the first race becomes WDC. Not that I would be sad at Mark Webber winning (he's a great bloke with super skill no doubt), I would just grin like an idiot if Fernando grabbed the win.
26th October 2010, 08:17
Big Ben

Quote:

Originally Posted by henners88

You've obviously never seen the tifosi presence at Silverstone in that case. There was a time when the Ferrari F1 car was about as British as a plate of Fish and chips, and many fans have gathered since those days. :)

I've seen them I often wondered why, with all the British teams, were there so many tifosi... I found it very annoying when I used to be a McLaren fan in the good all days when Mika was fighting the villain. However they seem to be having better things to do than come here and balance things up a bit :laugh: . good for them.
26th October 2010, 10:15
Retro Formula 1

I suppose in Blighty we are a tolerant type and respect peoples loyalities.

Imagine the grief a Itallian McLaren fan would get in Italy :laugh:

Perhaps it should be encouraged to "balance things up a bit"?
27th October 2010, 15:36
wedge

Quote:

Originally Posted by eu

so what's with the flag wedge? are you some kind under cover agent? what you write doesn´t go well with the flag :laugh:

In terms of neutrality, I'd say Brit F1 fans are the best in the world with the Japanese next in line though Tifosi are officially banned in Surrey :D
27th October 2010, 18:49
Tazio

The following is video evidence of the existence of an Italian McLaren Fan ;)

http://www.grid1.tv/videos/featured/...bandini-trophy
28th October 2010, 04:17
mstillhere

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Alcatraz

The following is video evidence of the existence of an Italian McLaren Fan ;)

http://www.grid1.tv/videos/featured/...bandini-trophy

There are quite a few
31st October 2010, 10:34
pallone col bracciale

I hope for a Ferrari title, but I still fear the speed of the Red Bulls. It is the fastest car, all things being equal, more often than not.

If Red Bull win the campionato, then it can be said that Ferrari and Alonso did a fantastic job to push them to the last race of the season.

If Red Bull do not win the campionato, then it can be said that they threw away an advantage, but still Ferrari & Alonso did a fantastic job to take this advantage.

Whatever the result, 2010 has seen Ferrari find the right driver for the team and for the future.
31st October 2010, 10:34
pallone col bracciale

Quote:

Originally Posted by mstillhere

There are quite a few

But they are Special Needs. Italian Health Service problem.
31st October 2010, 11:02
Big Ben

Quote:

Originally Posted by pallone col bracciale

But they are Special Needs. Italian Health Service problem.

that´s a post worth being deleted
31st October 2010, 11:43
Garry Walker

Quote:

Originally Posted by eu

that´s a post worth being deleted

Tamburello saying what he always has said.
31st October 2010, 16:58
Retro Formula 1

Quote:

Originally Posted by pallone col bracciale

then it can be said that Ferrari and Alonso did a fantastic job

but still Ferrari & Alonso did a fantastic job to take this advantage.

Whatever the result, 2010 has seen Ferrari find the right driver for the team and for the future.

Aren't you forgetting about Massa. If it wasn't for butt Monkey helping out, things might be different.
31st October 2010, 17:27
pallone col bracciale

Massa is a Ferrari driver, he is included in the consideration that Ferrari did a fantastic job.
1st November 2010, 00:52
Tazio

That's right Ferrari had a great weekend. Fortune smiled on them. :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by pallone col bracciale

Massa is a Ferrari driver, he is included in the consideration that Ferrari did a fantastic job.

Yes Massa drove well for Ferrari in this race.
1st November 2010, 15:59
Tazio

Allowed to use low mileage engine for last race

Quote:

One of Alonso's eight engines has very low mileage, but has been unable to be used because it was replaced after qualifying at the Bahrain season opener.

The rules prevented Ferrari from re-deploying this engine for anything other than free practice sessions, after it was replaced in Bahrain as a precaution due to the F60 almost overheating.

http://formula-1.updatesport.com/new...oost/view.html

Will this lump have been fitted with the valve seats that Ferrari got permission to do later in the season?
1st November 2010, 16:46
Tazio

Let me try that again: :crazy: :s pinhead:

According to this article Ferrari will be able to use the engine that was only used in Bahrain practice in Abu Dhabi.
Will this lump have the valve upgrade that Ferrari got permission to do after that race weekend?

http://formula-1.updatesport.com/new...oost/view.html

Quote:

One of Alonso's eight engines has very low mileage, but has been unable to be used because it was replaced after qualifying at the Bahrain season opener.

The rules prevented Ferrari from re-deploying this engine for anything other than free practice sessions, after it was replaced in Bahrain as a precaution due to the F60 almost overheating.

But because Abu Dhabi is the season finale, Alonso is allowed to use any engine in his allocation there, and the Bahrain qualifying unit is extremely low on mileage.
1st November 2010, 17:44
AndyL

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Alcatraz

Let me try that again: :crazy: :s pinhead:

According to this article Ferrari will be able to use the engine that was only used in Bahrain practice in Abu Dhabi.
Will this lump have the valve upgrade that Ferrari got permission to do after that race weekend?

http://formula-1.updatesport.com/new...oost/view.html

I suspect not... the FIA seals are applied before the engine is first used. I don't think an engine can be modified and re-homologated after that point.

In any case, if that engine hasn't been run for 8 months, will it still be in a usable state?
1st November 2010, 17:54
Tazio

.....
1st November 2010, 21:53
Tazio

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndyL

I suspect not... the FIA seals are applied before the engine is first used. I don't think an engine can be modified and re-homologated after that point.

In any case, if that engine hasn't been run for 8 months, will it still be in a usable state?

I'm starting to think this reprt is B.S.
Fred blew a engine in Maylasia and in China practice The one he blew in china I'm pretty sure was engine #1

http://www.vivaf1.com/engine.php
2nd November 2010, 05:21
Roamy

They cheated - they put TC on Alonso's car.. But went the FIA confiscated the EU all the printout said is "Michael was Here: :)
2nd November 2010, 05:24
555-04Q2

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