Top Gear!

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Originally Posted by Mark

Well the are both outstanding examples aimed at slightly different markets.

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Really? I very much remember Ron Dennis referring to the Ferrari 430 laying down the benchmark for McLaren.

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Originally Posted by Dylan H

I'd like to see how the McLaren compares to a top of the range Porsche. I know they aren't the same but the Porsche is the epitome of teutonic efficiency vs Italian passion and doesn't seem the worse for it.

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Ferrari 458 Italia v Porsche 911 GT3 RS | evo videos

http://www.evo.co.uk/videos/supercarvideos/251458/

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Originally Posted by Daniel

Bonkers supercars/hypercars are fun if you're 11 and need something to put on your wall, but if it were your car and you were wanting to drive it every day then you'd choose the McLaren every time.

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Again, refer to Evo/Chris Harris' review above, especialy the last part and its conclusion.

Even the Megane 250 vs. Focus RS.

Something that's easy to drive is all well and good but some people - driving enthusiasts as well those with more money than sense - want something that's a bit lairy. Its the greater test of skill and therefore more rewarding and satisfying to drive.

Another analogy, (when time rich, no problems with traffic, etc) why drive on an A road when you can have more fun on a B road?

To be honest, I don't believe a certain car has "zing" or passion or soul just because somebody else says it. You can be passionate about anything you want to, even a certain box of crayons because they color so well. I have never owned a supercar, and I don't think anybody else on this forum has, but if I ever was to buy one, I would like to buy the one that handles the best, so that I know when on a sneaky evening if I want to open the throttle on the highway and make a sudden turn, I won't end up in a ditch. So, I would choose a Porsche 911 or the new Mclaren every time. The joy of driving is knowing that your car has that handling sweet spot that would allow you to put it through its limits.

Anyway, I never take what Clarkson says seriously ever. It's pretty obvious he is pro Ferrari and anti Porsche and probably anti Mclaren. Going by his logic, the ill handling 16 year old Mclaren F1 would be the most passionate car and the car with the most "zing" in it, but it is not. He criticized the old Mclaren because it handled bad, and he didn't like the new one because it handles too good. Well...

Also, how he went on about the Mclaren factory being spick and span, futuristic, engineers not knowing what fun is, blah, blah, blah, it's not like the Ferrari factory is on the top of a mountain and they have Catholic monks carving engines out of a slab of iron. Both factories are technologically sophisticated and similar in probably each and every way. It's just that Ferrari has this aura around it that too many people buy into blindly. I prefer the Zonda R much more than any recent Ferrari model, from the way it looks, the sound, the characteristics, at least from what I have seen, not experienced. :D

Is this the same McLaren F1 which in GT form won Le Mans...???

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Originally Posted by CaptainRaiden

To be honest, I don't believe a certain car has "zing" or passion or soul just because somebody else says it. You can be passionate about anything you want to, even a certain box of crayons because they color so well. I have never owned a supercar, and I don't think anybody else on this forum has, but if I ever was to buy one, I would like to buy the one that handles the best, so that I know when on a sneaky evening if I want to open the throttle on the highway and make a sudden turn, I won't end up in a ditch. So, I would choose a Porsche 911 or the new Mclaren every time. The joy of driving is knowing that your car has that handling sweet spot that would allow you to put it through its limits.

Anyway, I never take what Clarkson says seriously ever. It's pretty obvious he is pro Ferrari and anti Porsche and probably anti Mclaren. Going by his logic, the ill handling 16 year old Mclaren F1 would be the most passionate car and the car with the most "zing" in it, but it is not. He criticized the old Mclaren because it handled bad, and he didn't like the new one because it handles too good. Well...

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I'm sorry but the McLaren F1 was never criticised for handling badly.

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Originally Posted by Daniel

I'm sorry but the McLaren F1 was never criticised for handling badly.

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By Clarkson it was. I remember on an old Top Gear episode him and Tiff Needell having an argument over the Mclaren's handling, where Needell of course loved it, but Clarkson said it was twitchy, had no rear end grip, and he much preferred the Ferrari F40.

Then he criticized its handling again later, I Googled his quote from what I could remember here: Top Gear: Series 5 Episode 2 Episode Summary - TV.com

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Jeremy Clarkson: [Describing the driving experience of the McLaren F1] You know that bit in Dr. Strangelove where Peter Sellers is astride the nuclear missile? That's what it's like. You don't know where you're going, you have no real control you just know that the journey's going to end very soon... and very badly!

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Originally Posted by CaptainRaiden

By Clarkson it was. I remember on an old Top Gear episode him and Tiff Needell having an argument over the Mclaren's handling, where Needell of course loved it, but Clarkson said it was twitchy, had no rear end grip, and he much preferred the Ferrari F40.

Then he criticized its handling again later, I Googled his quote from what I could remember here: Top Gear: Series 5 Episode 2 Episode Summary - TV.com

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OK I shall rephrase that, no one of note has ever criticised the F1's handling :D

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Originally Posted by Daniel

OK I shall rephrase that, no one of note has ever criticised the F1's handling :D

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Yep. I'm talking about Clarkson's idiotic comments anyway. I know the Mclaren F1 is a brilliant car. Tiff Needell and Mika Hakkinen have said so, so I'd take their word over the Ferrari loving baboon any day. :p

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Originally Posted by CaptainRaiden

Yep. I'm talking about Clarkson's idiotic comments anyway. I know the Mclaren F1 is a brilliant car. Tiff Needell and Mika Hakkinen have said so, so I'd take their word over the Ferrari loving baboon any day. :p

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Well Mika did work for McLaren you know ;) I've always liked the McLaren F1, the whole singlemindedness of the design is fantastic. If you could get a copy of Driving Ambition it would be well worth it but I think it was a limited edition book so 2nd hand copies are expensive!!!!

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Originally Posted by Daniel

Well Mika did work for McLaren you know ;) I've always liked the McLaren F1, the whole singlemindedness of the design is fantastic. If you could get a copy of Driving Ambition it would be well worth it but I think it was a limited edition book so 2nd hand copies are expensive!!!!

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Well, there's always the internet *cough* scanned PDF *cough*, although I doubt anybody is bothered with it that much for me to be able to find it anywhere.

I also have always loved the Mclaren F1 ever since I saw it for the first time, and got to know the nitty-gritties. Plus, it has the best seating position of any supercar ever. At that time that was as close as you could get to driving an F1 car, also if you had $1 million. ;)