I think that this is clear to all of us and agreed in previous discussion. We talk about particular aspects of the story because they are at least interesting.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wasted Talent
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I think that this is clear to all of us and agreed in previous discussion. We talk about particular aspects of the story because they are at least interesting.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wasted Talent
But that was a change of restrictor. Here we speak about a change of turbine wheel diameter (over fins) WITHOUT a change of restrictor ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
Argentina won't be so muddy, they don't need the "strong clutch" there ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by N.O.T
You are right.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
the weather was a gamble... nobody expected such conditions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Viking
when is muddy you need a strong clutch? lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Viking
If it is muddy, and you get semi-stuck, you need it, Petter said he would have got the car back on the road but clutch broke...Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
lol as much as you want :D
All I am trying to say is that it could be an advantage that a certain part is stronger and even slightly heavier..
Petter would had burnt the clutch also without mud.When you try to get out from the forest,you slip the clutch,and the friction materials are burnt.Nothing to do with a lighter clutch cover.So your conspiracy failed.Get it why i loled?Quote:
Originally Posted by Viking
I have burned a few, know the consept... but we don't know anything more of the clutch than it was not homologated and slightly heavier..Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
But in the end it prob is just me having a bit of fun when "the big money team" makes a slip up ;)
Even though you have a wastegate and restrictor doesn't render the rest of the design a coin toss. There's a lot going on below peak pressure ratio and flow, and at any point you want to speed up the turbo as fast as possible. A larger turbine will generate more momentum to the compressor for a given exhaust flow, of course up to an optimal point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
I remember in 2009 Loeb and Sordo both crashed out, I cant remember if they scored any points under superally or rally2 or whatever they want to call it today!Quote:
Originally Posted by bluuford
A clutch cover does have a function of dissipating heat. And the material / weight will vary this effect. If it would get Petter out of the ditch is probably a stretch though :)Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
In a Team like Citroen (and also Ford) all parts go through a very strickly inspection and all parts are marked before assembly. I can't just believe that they didn't know that clutch piece is different than it supposed to be.
Still about the turbo issue.
I don’t understand what is the benefit of having a bigger turbine wheel if the size of the compressor wheel remains the same. The airflow and thus also the gas flow doesn’t increase.
Would there be any benefit to changing the mass of the assembly?Quote:
Originally Posted by OldF
Some more photos: Rally Portugal 2012
I doubt that no.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregor-y
Double checked it. It was the first time Citroen didnt collect any manufacturer points. Second worst result was 2005 Sweden when they got 1 point only (Duval was 12th and loeb broke his engine).Quote:
Originally Posted by tfp
in this case you have better output at higher revs,but you loose at low range rpmsQuote:
Originally Posted by OldF
yes the lighter the better,but in our case was bigger=heavierQuote:
Originally Posted by Gregor-y
Vodafone Rally de Portugal 2012 - katikisphotography | SmugMug
My photos from Portugal...
Enjoy!!!
I believe this to be correct. The larger turbine will allow greater and faster airflow and will also bring more inertia maintaining higher speed during throttle off ... less lag.Quote:
Originally Posted by bretddog
Similarly a heavier flywheel/clutch assembly can have the same effect. Some F2 2WD cars were homologated with heavier flywheels than the standard item for exactly this reason.
Whilst in each case the variance is very small, perhaps the cumulative effect of both illegalities is actually measurable?
In which case ... the C word might not be inappropriate?
Hi all,
Some of my pics are HERE, on the eyesofrally facebook page and soon on the website.
Enjoy
http://www.ewrc.cz/images/2012/wrc/p...o/_DSD6622.jpg
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldF
The measured difference was under 0,09mm diameter. 0,09mm on diameter is about the thickness of one sheet of paper....
0,09mm on diameter is 0.045 on radius, or around HALF the thickness of a sheet of paper.
Whatever the theoretical difference, in reality that won't mean SFA difference, and personally having watched people who do not handle every single day of their lives micrometers and precision measuring tools, I don't believe that the technical geezers could repeatably measure things that accurately.
All you guys, before you make more of the dreaded pub talk, pick up a piece of good paper and look at it on edge...then imagine half that..
Then talk about "more....blah blah"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rom1
As an image, that is beautiful....knowing exactly what it is makes it even more fascinating.. Cartier-Bresson would be happy!
Denis Giraudet column: From Portugal with love...
Evgeny Novikov`s hi-res photogallery WRC PORTUGAL - almrally's Photos
Maybe I should go to Portugal for WRC?http://www.50centloseweight.com
Yeah it starts in about a year so you will have some time to see something of the country before the rally starts.Quote:
Originally Posted by HGJTYDJ
http://www.fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre...y-Portugal.pdf
Mikko's turbo was out of spec.
The fia references a letter from garret saying the turbines are all measured after manufacturing, does that mean Citroen had another turbine wheel made?
yes but Citroen didn t say that turbines were out of measure as new,but after stress/hot.Except that they dont mention the exact mm of turbine wheel.Quote:
Originally Posted by TyPat107
Nothing new...
All turbines came from the same place, right? It's strange that all are ok, and the ones from Citroen don't.Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
Nasser Al-attiyah and Thierry Neuville were lucky.
Its a mandated turbo correct? So why hasn't ford or mini had the same issue?Quote:
Originally Posted by JAM
the turbine wheel we are talking was measured not after manufacture but after 3 days of rallying.Citroen says that after extreme stress/temp may they have change the dimension of wheel.We don t know the exact measure.To say out of limits is one word.But if we dont know how much out of dimension it was,we can t know if they were cheating or was a bad measure from Citroen,or the stress/temp cause the wheel to be out of nomimal tolerances,or a Garrett bad manufacture.Quote:
Originally Posted by JAM
Anyway they have punished and that was fair imho.
How do you know that all citroen turbos are illegal? did they measure more than Mikkos turbo?
different turbo rpms,less temp,different antilag etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by TyPat107
Another point is that this wasn t the first time a ds3 turbo was measured.Normally all 3 first cars at all rallies are inspected,and i can t believe that in a world championship thay don t measure turbochargers.
That's why i said that they were lucky. Because if the scrutinners would had asked the other two DS3, probably th result would be the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
do you know that that was the ONLY time they had measure a ds3 turbocharger?How do you know that?Quote:
Originally Posted by JAM
That might make sense. I know anti-lag is far more heat/stress on a turbo than flat out driving. And mikko just cruised through the rally so possibly so ( no real great way to say this really) his car may have been a situation where anti-lag came into play more than if he had been pushing causing more wear etc on the turbo.Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii