Saddam Hussein Hanged

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Originally Posted by Mark in Oshawa

Gannex, the Iranian option is no option. Not this Iran. Not with the president threatening his own nuclear options in the future, and a promise to take out Israel in fire or the whole world if you like.....

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Mark, I share your concern about Iran growing even more powerful. Like you, I think that a regime like Iran, so hate-filled, so determined to obliterate its enemies, should not easily be given even more of the means to achieve their awful purposes. But you forget one thing -- the Israelis will not allow Iran to achieve a nuclear arsenal any time soon. Just last week, the Israelis leaked their plan to eliminate Iran's nuclear installations, as surely as they eliminated Iraq's back in 1981. I don't know if you saw the story. In England, it was in The Sunday Times, and detailed a rather chilling plan to attack the underground Iranian installations with a conventional bunker-buster bomb, which would then create a drop-hole through which the Israelis would drop a very small nuclear bomb. The fallout, it is thought, would be contained because of the extreme depth of the explosion. It would be more akin to an underground nuclear test in its effects on humanity, than to the bomb on Hiroshima. The power of this bomb, apparently, is about one twentieth of the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombs.

My point is that Iran can be given a little bit of leash at this point to help stabilise Iraq. Their nuclear ambitions will be taken care of later, by another country, in another way. No need to worry. Iran will not get the bomb.

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Originally Posted by Eki

I haven't heard him say that. He has only said Israel should be wiped off the map, or something like that, and I agree with him. Not through nuclear or other weapons of course, but through politics and diplomacy. Those who have emigrated to Israel should pack up and go back where they came from. How stupid it was to emigrate to the Middle East when the situation was like it was? I think Israel is as useless as DDR was and North Korea still is.

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Read the Bible Eki, the Jews have been in Israel for as long as the Arabs. Both sides have to learn to get along. The Israelis say they will try if the Palestinians will but Hamas, and before them Arafat only play a game of cease fire to build up to make another push. Not to mention the Arab neighbours trying to knock them off in 4 other wars. As for Jewish immigrants, it is no diffrent than if all the Finn's around the world were denied being alllowed to move back home, even if they were from another nation.

No Eki, don't go down that road. As for Iran's president, he had a conference of holocaust denial experts, he has said he would wipe them off the map. He wont do THAT through your precious diplomacy. No, Eki, if left up to you, you would have every Jew in Israel grab their ankles and take what is coming to them obviously.....

Both the Jews and Arab's have to get along but until there is a trust from Israel that they will not be under attack as a society from suicide bombers or outright military invasion, it wont happen. Iran is the biggest backer of Hezbollah, who if you were paying attention Eki spent about a month lobbing rockets into Northern Israel. It shouldn't escape your notice that the Iranians encouraged this. So spare me the rhetoric how the President of Iran didn't say he would kill all the Jews. Heck, he would likely enslave them to wash his car for all I know but I do know this much. They would be just sub-human fodder to him. Spare me the crap about what a great fellow he is. You trust dictators and trust racist pigs Eki. Completely at odds with your Finnish state. Of course, I have come to the conclusion, you are not a typical Finn.....

Interesting that Iran has been brought up in this discussion.

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US north Iraqi raid angers Iran
US forces have stormed a building in the northern Iraqi town of Irbil and seized six people said to be Iranians, prompting a diplomatic incident.

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http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6251167.stm

The Israeli state has only been officiallly a state since 1947, and the newly minted UN said both the Arab's and Israeli's could share Palestine but the Arab's refused that option, wanting all of it under their control. Well, we know how well that has worked. Israel cant trust them to not try to wipe them out, so you have a partitioned state with hostile intentions on one side for sure. Arafat could have had 95% of his "demands" with the Oslo accord, but instead, he allowed the Intifada. He didn't want peace. The sad part is, Israeli Arabs, that is Arab's in the state of Israel do just fine, vote in the elections, have the same freedoms as anyone else. Just they are not Palestinians for the most part, and it is the Palestinians who have been used as pawns for pan-arabian hostility towards Israel.

Eki, you should really read some of the Wiki stuff you send on to me all the time, I bet I wouldn't have to keep on explaining the history of this stuff....

Knocker, don't you know they were there just to sample the local cuisine? Just friendly fellows I am sure.

Eki only likes Jews when they cower I guess, but in reality, they go back to Israel to defend the spiritual homeland of the start of their faith, the same way Arab's defend Saudi Arabia as the home of Mecca. I would be as angry if the Jewish state made ridiculous statements about how Saudi Arabia should be wiped out.

You have a double standard, the US isn't allowed to invade Iraq, but you see nothing wrong with Iranian and Arab hostility to threaten Israel. You obviously have a problem with Jews Eki, I worry about you.

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Originally Posted by Mark in Oshawa

Read the Bible Eki, the Jews have been in Israel for as long as the Arabs.

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According to the recent research, every human being originates from Africa, somewhere near the present day Ethiopia. It doesn't mean we should all move back there. If you leave, you lose your seat. I have nothing against those who were in Israel before 1947 or their descendants staying there. If you accept a radical Jewish state, surely you must also accept a radical Muslim state.

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Originally Posted by Eki

According to the recent reserach, every human being originates from Africa, somewhere near the present day Ethiopia. It doesn't mean we should all move back there. If you leave, you lose your seat. I have nothing against those who were in Israel before 1947 or their descendants staying there. If you accept a radical Jewish state, surely you must also accept a radical Muslim state.

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Eki, the Jews NEVER LEFT ISRAEL. They have been there since before Christ. They predate any Arab claims to the area. They don't NEED to go anywhere. It is THEIR HOME !!!!

I can accept Radical Arab states exist, i just don't ask anyone to take them seriously and not to trust them with anyone's right's or freedoms. I don't trust their government, and I don't trust their motives. If they threaten my way of life, I am all for someone taking them out. We had this discussion before. A democracy threatened has a right after diplomatic negotiation to take the final option of war. You would just allow anything to happen as long as it didn't effect your little world Eki. Of course, unless it was the US that did it, then you jump to the conclusion it was wrong.


As for a Radical Jewish state, yes, democratically elected nations in the Middle East are so radical compared to all the autocracies and dictators. You really have no clue of how much of a Nazi you are starting to sound like Eki. I have lost total respect for almost anything you say. It has taken you a week to finally get to the point where you are just making NO sense what so ever.

It is obvious that you my friend are a hateful soul with no regard for history or fairness. You obviously refuse to believe you have anything to learn and you never question your values. You know it all. WE should just kiss your ring because you have the knowledge. Everyone, See EKI, he has the answers...just ask him.

Fool....

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Originally Posted by Mark in Oshawa

Eki, the Jews NEVER LEFT ISRAEL. They have been there since before Christ. They predate any Arab claims to the area. They don't NEED to go anywhere. It is THEIR HOME !!!!

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About 60% of the Jews in Israel have born abroad or descend from someone who has immigrated to Israel since 1947.

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Originally Posted by Mark in Oshawa

As for a Radical Jewish state, yes, democratically elected nations in the Middle East are so radical compared to all the autocracies and dictators.

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Somebody once said democracy occurs when two wolves and a sheep decide on what to have for dinner, freedom occurs when the sheep has a gun. Bring on more wolves and give them an immigrant visa. Like a minority of Arabs have a chance in a democracy with a majority of Jews.

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Originally Posted by Eki

About 60% of the Jews in Israel have born abroad or descend from someone who has immigrated to Israel since 1947.

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Eki, any country can allow anyone to emigrate or not based on their criteria. You know, your standard that every nation should be left alone. I see, only ones you AGREE with get to set that standard. Israel's Arab population has voting rights and other rights of citizenship. You know, basic rights that any democratic society gives to its citizens. Do a little research beyond reading Arab propaganda, and you learn that Jewish quarters existed in Amman, Baghdad, Beirut, Cairo and other Arab cities. What is more, the Jews there lost all rights and were basically pushed out at the point of a gun as all the states in the area became independent and colonial rule left. Arabs in Israel don't have to be worried about being evicted unless they are picking up arms or strapping TNT to their bodies. Since the ones in Israel have figured out life in the Jewish state is better than living in some other dictatorial regime, they live in peace.

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Originally Posted by Eki

Somebody once said democracy occurs when two wolves and a sheep decide on what to have for dinner, freedom occurs when the sheep has a gun. Bring on more wolves and give them an immigrant visa. Like a minority of Arabs have a chance in a democracy with a majority of Jews.

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The sheep has the gun? I would say in the Middle East there are about 12 Wolves including one trying to get nuclear weapons and only 2 that will even recognize the right of Israel to exist. Damn right the Sheep has the gun, or they would have been swimming in the Med a long time ago, no thanks to people who think like you.

See Your analogies just make you look like a fool Eki. You cant advocate the elimination of the Jewish state without sounding like an anti-semite. You feel the Jews have no right to move back to Israel when I pounded it into your head that the Jews never left Israel. See, they would share and they would have given Palestinians likely more if the other Arab nations didn't persist in encouraging the Palestinians to push for the whole area. Of course, the other Arab nations can use Israel as a bogey man while no one talks about the thousands they torture, kill, enslave and generally ignore or steal from. No, you are all set to worry about Arab rights in Israel Eki but you deny them from Arabs living in Iraq or about 12 other nations in the area.

I don't know why I bother.....