another school shooting in U.S. of A. :(

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Originally Posted by Rollo

More generally, there are a host of rules about where one can drive, where they can park, how fast you can drive and where. You can't just arbitrarily drive at 130mph past a school at 3pm on a Wednesday. It's dangerous and the law reflects this.

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Ah, but you can do it anytime you want. You'll be breaking the law of course, but your vehicle will allow you to do that.

It keeps coming back to some people believing that, just because there is a law, bad things won't happen. Those people are WRONG.

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Originally Posted by Starter

Ah, but you can do it anytime you want. You'll be breaking the law of course, but your vehicle will allow you to do that.

It keeps coming back to some people believing that, just because there is a law, bad things won't happen. Those people are WRONG.

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The law most certainly shapes people's behaviour doesn't it? If the speed limit is 60km/h people will generally obey it. If a police car is driving down the street, then almost as if by magic people follow the law more closely. Put up a speed camera and fine people for breaking the law and people almost certainly drive past at under 60km/h.
The enforcement of speed limits varies between NSW and Victoria. Drive in NSW and people tend to cruise along at 115km/h on the motorway (in a 110 zone) but the second you stray into Victoria, people will almost sit at exactly 110 for they reason they they know that the law is harsher.

Of course bad things will invariably happen. Enforce the law and enact tougher legislation and the effect of it is seen in a safer society. Hence the reason why I live in a nation almost 50 times safer on a per capita basis when it comes to the issue of firearms.

Research proves over and over again that more guns trends with more homicide.
Homicide - Firearms Research - Harvard Injury Control Research Center - Harvard School of Public Health

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Originally Posted by Starter

Yes, it is. Too bad you don't have it. I feel for your loss.

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I pity you for holding a view so depressing — that freedom can only be had by way of possession of guns.

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Originally Posted by chuck34

Not at all. Sex with a five-year-old harms someone and violates their rights of Life, Liberty, and Pursuit of Happiness. For me (or any of the millions of legal gun owners in this country) to legally own a firearm does no harm to anyone. And in fact might even prevent harm from coming to me.

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I believe your concept of gun ownership has injected into US society at best a deeply unpleasant element, and I believe it has, subconsciously perhaps, contributed to many a tragedy. Attempt in your mind to separate them out if you wish, but I feel it's a link that deserves deeper consideration than you or your ilk are prepared to give it.

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Originally Posted by chuck34

Ask someone who has protected their own Life, Liberty, or Property if they feel "pandered" to.

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The triteness of these concepts as expressed by you and others like you is apparent in your need pointlessly to capitalise them — quite apart from the fact that you go on about them as though they are America's and America's alone. Given the well-known lack of knowledge of the more insular American about other countries, I would suggest that this view is misguided.

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Originally Posted by chuck34

"The pen is mightier than the sword".

And guns are not a way of everyday life for me.

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I meant 'you' as in 'America', or 'Americans'.

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Originally Posted by Starter

Cars are exactly like guns in that, if they are misused, death and destruction can result. So the comparison is valid.

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I simply don't believe it is. You ignored completely the very reasonable point made, namely that a car is not intended as a weapon; a gun is. You might argue that this is unimportant — I would disagree completely. I, for one, would never want to possess anything intended purely as a weapon, for it's completely unnecessary, and would indicate to me that things, whether in my life or the society in which I live, had gone badly wrong.

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Originally Posted by Starter

They do the following:
1) Provide meat for those who hunt.
2) Provide a source of competition and skill for those who target shoot.
3) Provide some defense against those who would invade one's home to steal or assault the occupants.
4) Provide a means of recourse against abusive government. (Rarely used, but necessary for free people remaining free over the long term.)

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All of them useless or outdated needs.

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Originally Posted by Starter

Yes, it is. Too bad you don't have it. I feel for your loss.

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:laugh:
The downside for me is that I will not have to worry about my children's lives being wasted. I can live with it.

I fully support your right to own a gun (not so sure about all the things invented since the founding fathers did their it, maybe you shouldn't have a right to those), I would also fully support 500% tax on guns and 1000% tax on ammo. Feel free to own one, and a couple of bullets if it makes you feel safe, but you could never afford to amass enough of either to go on a spree

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2

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Originally Posted by ioan

All of them useless or outdated needs.

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No 2, I think, can't be criticised. Target shooting is a perfectly legitimate sport.