People Power

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Originally Posted by Rollo

I agree though fairness and equality aren't worthwhile goals. History has more or less shown that in the long run it's pretty well much impossible to achieve, so why bother.

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And why do we think this is?

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Originally Posted by Bob Riebe

Money obatained from where, whom, how?

Your rhetoric seems to say all persons out there are trying their hardest to become U.S. citizens striving for the common good as a united United States, whilst ignoring there is a goodly portion who are adamant to remain in a separate culture which is owed to by the white rich boys.
You need to consider more of the real world verses political dogma based on a fantasy.

In the conservative system near all who try to succeed have the opportunity to do so; in the liberal welfare state a portion are treated as a subserviant class who need not try to succeed or believe in a united United States because the government/s, federal and state, will address their wants and suport their chosen life-style.

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On that basis, do you believe that the entire populations of those countries that have traditionally enjoyed high standards of living and performed well economically while also having extensive welfare systems and high rates of taxation, such as the Scandinavian countries, are 'subservient'?

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

On that basis, do you believe that the entire populations of those countries that have traditionally enjoyed high standards of living and performed well economically while also having extensive welfare systems and high rates of taxation, such as the Scandinavian countries, are 'subservient'?

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To varying degrees.
From what I have gathered, from internet communications with persons living in Sweden, minorities there are treated in a similar manner that Democrats here tried to foist on the U.S. population.
Washington trying to foist Ebonics on the general U.S. population being one that comes to mind. I.e. let them be themselves, there is no need for them to try to integrate with standard society.

There was a show over here on PBS, recently, showing how being subservient to Federal Government requirements has destroyed any chance of Indian reservations from prospering unless those standard are drastically changed.

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Originally Posted by Rollo

I agree though fairness and equality aren't worthwhile goals. History has more or less shown that in the long run it's pretty well much impossible to achieve, so why bother.

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I assume you mean by a process, that is not already legally outlined in , or simply ignores, the constitution of a country, or forcing onto the populace standards that exist legally no where but in the current government's mind.

Such as happened recently in Venezuela where the newly stacked, biased by Government appointment, Supreme Court ruled as legal a law that plainly illegal as written in their Constitution.

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Originally Posted by donKey jote

I assume from his posturing on these forums that Mr Riebe is already well in his golden years and
a) doesn't need to collect any retirement benefits - "he's all right, Jack" (sod the rest).
or
b) he is jealous ( ;) ) of those evil union folk who collect more retirement benefits than he does, so sod them all and the rest of them as well. :p

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There is an old saying about the word "assume" but in this case it only makes an ass out of you, and yourself.

Donks has been called an ass.

So what's new. :p :

:s mokin:

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Originally Posted by Bob Riebe

To varying degrees.
From what I have gathered, from internet communications with persons living in Sweden, minorities there are treated in a similar manner that Democrats here tried to foist on the U.S. population.
Washington trying to foist Ebonics on the general U.S. population being one that comes to mind. I.e. let them be themselves, there is no need for them to try to integrate with standard society.

There was a show over here on PBS, recently, showing how being subservient to Federal Government requirements has destroyed any chance of Indian reservations from prospering unless those standard are drastically changed.

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On the contrary, my experience of meeting people (as opposed to corresponding with them online, an environment that does not always bring out the most balanced views) from different countries, and living outside my homeland, is that everyone seems equally cynical about their political masters and not in the least bit subservient towards the state, no matter what the level of taxation and welfare may be.

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Originally Posted by Rollo

I assume Mr Riebe that when you reach your golden years that you expect not to collect any retirement benefits? No?

It wasn't specifically union pensions that bankrupted General Motors or the United States, but a failure to set aside money or plan for the day when those entitlements fell due.
General Motors and indeed the United States, expected future receipts through sales and taxation respectively to cover payments for pensions.

The CEOs and Governments of the 1960s and 1970s were negligent, but most of those officers are now dead and completely oblivious of the mess they've left behind.

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Let me see if I got this straight, about government pensions; they are considered employees of the populace that either voted them in, or pays their wages.
By your standards, it is fine for them to believe that as they have the power to raise taxes, and get paid said same pension if they quit their job, or are elected out, they may raise taxes, as they so desire, to be able to pay whatever standard they believe is proper, for their prosperity at any point in time.

BRILLIANT!

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Originally Posted by chuck34

Then please explain to me how you achieve your goals of fairness and equality if it isn't through redistribution of wealth.

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Who says the wealth needs to be fair and equal?

What should be fair and equal is the opportunity to create wealth. Something that can only be achieved with the Free Market.

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Originally Posted by Bob Riebe

Let me see if I got this straight, about government pensions; they are considered employees of the populace that either voted them in, or pays their wages.

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No you aint got that straight.

Pensions paid by the Government are entitlements to the people to whom they are due.
Before 1984, federal workers had a "defined" benefit plan and no Social Security. That is, those entitlements were to be paid as they fell due. Today they have Social Security and a pension that is part defined benefit plan (lifetime monthly payments) and part defined contribution (a lump sum at retirement).

Nobody from 1935 when the system was introduced ever thought that it was prudent that anything should be set aside for future expenses.

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Originally Posted by Bob Riebe

By your standards, it is fine for them to believe that as they have the power to raise taxes, and get paid said same pension if they quit their job, or are elected out, they may raise taxes, as they so desire, to be able to pay whatever standard they believe is proper, for their prosperity at any point in time.

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I didn't say that or infer that. This is your own invention.