Hamilton: Maybe it's because I'm black

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Originally Posted by Tumbo

See I do have quite a good grasp of sarcasm - Brits may not believe it but we actually do speak English down under :p (did that work? did the sarcasm come through there) But making a joke about something which can be quite serious (just look at the way English fans hit the roof over the black-faced fans in Spain) is not on - especially when you have been around the block for more than 5mins. If Lewis didn't have a question mark in his own mind over it then why go there - he isn't that stupid as to think it wouldn't cause a headline

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Perhaps Lewis was just still pumped up, and felt he had been given short shrift by the Stewards.

End of the day, once he calmed down, he apologised.

Remember Vettel and Webber at Turkey 2010? Immediately out of the car Seb does the 'loopy' sing with his fingers to suggest Mark was mad? He knows full well Mark is not mad, and he also knew that Mark did not deviate from his line........

In a subsequent interview on reflection, he backtracked and said he'd never deliberately turn in on a competitor - suggesting it was his 'mistake'.

Water under the bridge.......

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Originally Posted by The Black Knight

I'd imagine it was damage from the Loews hairpin a few corners before. How Hamilton got alongside Massa in the tunnel is beyond me. I really wish we could find some coverage of this as it could shed some light on Massa's crash and what actually caused it.

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If it was a lack of front-end grip, you'd expect Massa to run wide on the corner immediately before the tunnel, thus allowing Lewis to get up the inside......

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Originally Posted by SGWilko

If it was a lack of front-end grip, you'd expect Massa to run wide on the corner immediately before the tunnel, thus allowing Lewis to get up the inside......

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That would also explain why he went out onto the Marbles so easily in the tunnel. But if he felt something had broke on the car the corner before the tunnel or he knew he had lost grip, one would expect he'd have backed off knowing he couldn't possibly defend against Hamilton, or take the tunnel at normal speed, but it looked as though he was defending his position...

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Originally Posted by SGWilko

If it was a lack of front-end grip, you'd expect Massa to run wide on the corner immediately before the tunnel, thus allowing Lewis to get up the inside......

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It was either a DFN or a penalty for him, it ended with the latter.

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Originally Posted by SGWilko

Remember Vettel and Webber at Turkey 2010?

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I'm just glad that this incident didn't involve Webber and Vettel as given my Red Bull fandom and complete dislike of Webber I wouldn't be able to give any objective statement concerning the matter. This is probably the first time i've been of the opinion that Lewis was just not in the right place in his head during a race and took stupid risks and went beyond normal racing moves. Was a real shame as I thought he was on fire in Catalunya the race before and really was showing himself to be the Lewis of 07/8 again something that I felt has been missing the last 2 yrs (even tho the car may have had an impact on that)

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Originally Posted by The Black Knight

That's a bit more like it.

While those of us that believe Hamilton correct have given detailed accounts of what happened, unfortunately all I've heard from the anti-Hamilton brigade is that he divebombed up the inside because he lost patience or he dove in all repeated in varying different ways etc None of you have yet given details showing how he "dive bombed" from being almost level on the track with him. My guess is you actually can't give a detailed account because you're not able.

There is no evidence backing this up at all because to dive bomb up the inside of someone you have to be behind them and just throw it in or at least quite a bit further back than Hammy was. Hamilton was already on the inside with his front wing almost at the back of Maldonado's front wing. If that's a dive bomb then most overtaking must be a dive bomb because in most overtakes I've seen I'd rarely see a driver in a better position to outbrake his opponent into a corner than Hamilton was there.

By the way, the rules allow you to move once to defend your position. Maldonado moved twice whilst under attack from Lewis. If the stewards were being consistent he should have been penalised for that.

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One of the "movements" was to follow the kink in the start finish straight..... Should Pastor just have crashed into the wall to let Lewis through?????

What is it with SOME Lewis fans who just seem to think that people should get out of his way? Lewis was aiming at a piece of track that was going to become kerb and Maldonado needed to let him through, he was not even alonside Massa and Massa is just meant to let him through. Get a grip people and just admit that Hamilton did wrong....

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Originally Posted by Daniel

people should get out of his way?

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In F1 you don't just 'hope' the other drivers get out of the way, because, being a competition it does not work like that. You have to make the move, and make it stick. Sadly, it requires the other party to not turn in on you and expect to be able to class it as a 'blocking move'

I love how adamant some people are that Lewis DID do wrong, ABSOLUTELY, 100%, wake up, get a grip, blah, blah, blah when neither Domenicali or Sam Michael have pointed their finger at Lewis. They have the full license to just lay it on him, but for some reason they held back. Is it because they're aware their drivers MAY be at fault as well, to a lesser extent? I mean Marko Helmut said more about a driver in his own team after the Vettel-Webber clash after Turkey 2010 than Stefano and Sam have so far about a driver that doesn't drive for them.

Also, these same Lewis detractors have so far conveniently ignored any and all evidence that the two incidents MIGHT, just MIGHT be racing incidents, especially the pictures. The incident with Massa, yes, Lewis was way too overeager, but if someone in their right mind can actually blame Lewis 100% for the Maldonado incident, then I don't know how much about racing do they really know. Sadly, when there's this much bias and hatred involved, along with passion, things are only gonna go round in circles.

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Originally Posted by X-ecutioner

I love how adamant some people are that Lewis DID do wrong, ABSOLUTELY, 100%, wake up, get a grip, blah, blah, blah when neither Domenicali or Sam Michael have pointed their finger at Lewis. They have the full license to just lay it on him, but for some reason they held back. Is it because they're aware their drivers MAY be at fault as well, to a lesser extent? I mean Marko Helmut said more about a driver in his own team after the Vettel-Webber clash after Turkey 2010 than Stefano and Sam have so far about a driver that doesn't drive for them.

Also, these same Lewis detractors have so far conveniently ignored any and all evidence that the two incidents MIGHT, just MIGHT be racing incidents, especially the pictures. The incident with Massa, yes, Lewis was way too overeager, but if someone in their right mind can actually blame Lewis 100% for the Maldonado incident, then I don't know how much about racing do they really know. Sadly, when there's this much bias and hatred involved, along with passion, things are only gonna go round in circles.

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This is the unfortunate case as can be seen clearly by Daniel's post


"Get a grip people and just admit that Hamilton did wrong.... " Yet he ignores all the evidence. This is the case with all the people in this thread. I put a post up last night which gives a clear second by second account of what happened and what Lewis's and Maldonado's options were at each point and nobody even bothered replying to it because they know they are wrong. If they were right they'd be able to reply with evidence to counteract my argument but they couldn't.

Bagwan fell back on comments such as:

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Daniel , I'm confused now , too .
I can't figure out why two former drivers , now commentators , in that clip of the incident , immediately decided it was Lewis's fault . It seemed they thought it was obvious .
And , then that former driver , Allan McNish , acting as steward thought so , too .

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It's all rather amusing really. It continually amazes the depths of denial people will go to in order to not have to admit they are wrong.

Tomorrow night I'm going to sit back and read over this thread with popcorn.

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Originally Posted by The Black Knight

Those two ex drivers are wrong I'm afraid. You should learn to make up your own mind rather than just listening to what others say. I thought that Lewis was wrong also in that incident with Maldonado until such time as I watched it again. Then I realised that it was Pastor that turned in and cut him off rather than him just lunging down the inside in the hope it works out. As I showed in my post above, he was already alongside him. His attempt to overtake perfectly legitimate.

If drivers can no longer make overtake attempts like Lewis did against Pastor on Sunday we will see no exciting overtaking or driving in F1.

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Brundle , Coulthard , and McNish . I count three guys who agree with me there .
You should learn how to count .

I gave you a good explanation of why I believe Lewis to be at fault in the incident , before I referred you to those three guys .
You should learn how to read .

Lewis knew where Pastor was .
Pastor knew Lewis was back there , and moved in to show his intentions .
Lewis didn't get the message , and tried to force his way through .

But , you can't intimidate a driver who can't see you .

You didn't see Maldonado taking any avoidance move before they came together , did you ?