Without explicit approval from Ford - I would say no.Quote:
Originally Posted by Simmi
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Without explicit approval from Ford - I would say no.Quote:
Originally Posted by Simmi
But still was nearly faster than him almost everywhere.. I think that money was cause to leave.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarmop
You can be faster...and det the updates one day. Money from Toyota was definitely tempting but as he said, not the main thing. Main thing was equal conditions and money to develop the car. He even said that M-Sport made him an offer that wasn`t too bad, but would`ve still meant No. 2.
And what will he be in Toyota. Still number 2...Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarmop
In terms of car upgrades due to budget issues, no. On the stages he is the boss...i hope.
I don't see any world champions in that Toyota team...Quote:
Originally Posted by ESTR
No reason Ott shouldn't be top dog if the performances are worthy, Finnish mafia or not.
It's funny how "budget issues" are always mentioned with M-Sport. If this year has proven anything, it's that there are no issues from a lack of budget, at M-Sport...
yes they did. if it wasn't for wilson's desire to go on even without the proper funding, there would be no ford in the wrc.Quote:
Originally Posted by macebig
i don't know. even hyundai with their huge budget hade some updates only for neuville.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarmop
oh, wilson knows his job. he knows where the money is and how to get it. so he didn't stay in wrc just because of good will...
That is what Ott said himself. Ogier definitely got some better diffs before him...3 cars (vs Ott 2 and Evans 1 and that was paid by DMack) What happened with Hyundai in the end of the season is another story i think. Testing for 2018 and referencing with old etc.
If you don't think the main reason Tanak left was due to the big contract he's getting, you're a bit deluded. Doesn't matter how Tanak dresses it up in interviews.
Ofcourse Ogier was going to get car updates a round or two before Tanak this season. What had Tanak done before this year to deserve equal status in every department, with a 4time world champion anyway? With Msport having less financial support it made complete sense to give Seb the updates first. Even in manufacturer teams, sometimes car updates can only go to one car first. See Citroen and Hyundai this season for example. Even in F1 where money is no object for some of the bigger teams, sometimes its only feasible for updates to go on one car first.
Now Tanak is a proven winner and has shown he can be a championship contender, what's not to say he wouldn't have got more updates on the fiesta at the same time as Seb next season, had he stayed? There's more support now to do it with Ford Performance increasing their backing, and he certainly was allowed to fight Ogier on the stages by Malcolm. So he can have no complaints there about team orders, and being what Dani Sordo was to Loeb. Malcolm managed the team well and has done it throughout his career with Jari/Mikko and most notably with Sainz/McRae. We've yet to see how Tommi handles two (maybe 3 big drivers) fighting at the front with each other.
This isn't a criticism of Tanak btw, he has secured his and his family's financial future with this big Toyota contract. Most of us would've done the same in his position im sure.
Still doesn't mean i think it was the best decision for his immediate rallying future however. He left a championship winning team/car, and a car that he developed to go elsewhere. I think he could've given it another year at Msport, having shown this season that he could beat seb with the same car and aim for the championship. He still would've had huge contract offers come the end of 2018 too, what with Hyundai, Toyota, Citroen and Msport all having multiple drivers with their contracts expiring.
Hopefully for Ott he can adapt quickly though, and can prove it was the right sporting decision too. The Yaris is less reliable and less consistent than the Fiesta across a whole season, but Toyota will feel they can improve in the off season with his help. I can't wait to see how he does and would love to see him push even harder for the championship, but he'll certainly be up against it with Jari, Seb and Neuville already familiar with their teams/cars.
Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
You dont know anything, still less have proof.Quote:
Originally Posted by tommeke_B
More testing, more spare parts, more and earlier upgrades would all have been possible with the funds. Having more money in motorsport is always better than having less.
M-Sport produced a kind of miracle in 2017 through sheer hard work and Ogier's skill and professionalism brought to the whole team.
You have to remember that the money and FP wasn`t there, when he made his contract with Toyota.
My MS-RT Membership pack I just got for Xmas only gives Ogier and Evans as their Team for WRC 2018.
(They also say they have plans for the BRC & ERC to be announced soon...)
Yes. Plus Ott almost signed with Toyota already for 2017, but was still under contract with M-Sport.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarmop
Looking at how this thrid car situation is going, can anyone else see Kajetan Kajetanowicz doing a few rounds in the third car this season? He's basically done everything he can in the ERC. Surely Lotos can provide funding?
He is not even fast enough for WRC2, so no.Quote:
Originally Posted by the sniper
But is smart enought to collect points. I can see him doing something.
I would not say he is not fast enough. He simply has zero experience with WRC events and that's something You can't gain in a weekend. Anyway he is too old to give him let's say two seasons to gain experience.Quote:
Originally Posted by Essaj
Is Lotos interested in promoting on the WRC countries?Quote:
Originally Posted by the sniper
Also, M-Sport not having a permanent third driver should not have an effect on available cars for paying drivers. Look at this year, they had many fourth cars.
Maybe M-Sport will subsidise the third car so suitable drivers don't have to find the full budget? Bouffier on Monte, Mads in Sweden etc.
Would make more sense to support Suninen and Camilli do half seasons for developing into M-Sport's future permanent drivers.Quote:
Originally Posted by RS
I should elaborate when I say what I perceive as 'the third car situation'. It's starting to look like that seat won't be allocated on talent/future prospects alone, or Suninen and Camilli would surely already be confirmed to split it between them at least. Maybe the third car this year will be used by M-Sport as a promotional vehicle for 'customers'. So you could be looking at Bouffier in Monte, Mads in Sweden, Kremer in Germany, Kajto somewhere else, with Suninen and Camilli getting in on rounds where there are no other takers?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
Certainly not all of them. But I imagine any WRC round gets more media coverage in Poland than any ERC round, other than perhaps the one taking place in Poland itself? Which would get more media attention in Poland, winning an ERC round abroad or debuting in a 2018 WR Car and doing a couple of rounds in the top class? I don't know, but it might make sense to them.Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
My guess is that Camilli/Suninen was the initial plan but Camilli didn't get funding for Monte in time, thus leaving the seat open. Otherwise Bouffier would have just been the fourth car. I'm surprised if Teemu isn't there in Sweden.Quote:
Originally Posted by the sniper
Also is more expensive, probably worth 3 ERC R5 ralliesQuote:
Originally Posted by the sniper
On the one hand - I'm afraid Kajetanowicz is not fast enough for WRC, plus he has zero experience at this level, plus he is already a little too old (38).Quote:
Originally Posted by the sniper
On the other hand - Bouffier, Breen and Lefebvre got their chances at WRC level and Kajetanowicz proved many times that he is a better driver than they are, so why not? :)
When did Kajto prove he was better driver than Bouffier? Sorry, that's complete nonsense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarek Z
Maybe here?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
https://www.fiaerc.com/season/2017/?...on-erc-drivers
8 starts against 4. Points per start 19,5/21 for Bouffier. Direct fights 2/2. Wins per start 12,5%/50% for Bouffier. SS wins per start 2,5/2,75 for Bouffier. So how did You come to a conclusion that Kajto is much better?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarek Z
... (and Bouffier won on Kajto's home soil).
maybe some finnish guys here can shed some light why Suninen isnt doing a full season? Is it because of the budget or inexperience?
I think it is right to put him to an R5 for Monte but from Sweden onwards he should participate on every round with a WRC machine.
I think it's a combination of both - budget and inexperience. Sure, he has a Timo Jouhki backing, so the millions are there, but Jouhki does what he thinks makes the most sense for him and his driver, also from the financial point of view. If the cost of the "additional rounds" (not included in the plan of 6-8 rallies) is not reasonable, then Jouhki won't do that. Probably the best deal (considering all different elements of it) Jouhki could get from Wilson for Suninen in 2018 is what has already been rumoured: 6-8 outings in WRC and the rest in R5.Quote:
Originally Posted by EstWRC
That's not a bad deal for Suninen to drive the WRC on his strong rallies to get confidence and drive the rest in R5 to learn them and improve himself. Also he is young so he should be in no rush to push for a full works seat, better that he shows good results in the WRC and gets picked up on merit.
As for MSport Ford I think they will focus on Sebastian. Evans should be consistently in the points and they'll take whatever they can get from the third car so they may be in the manufacturer's fight as well. However in terms of parts, evolutions, support, new cars and so on I assume Ogier will be prioritized, since the team is still limited in budget and so it makes sense to maximize the effort to have one car ahead of everyone instead of spreading it out over several cars that could be slightly slower.
I agree... Ogier and the Drivers' Title will be the M-Sport priority in 2018. The strength of the factoy teams will be even greater and really hard to compete against.
If Ford wanted to help retain the Manu's Title they needed to comeback fully and fund a 3rd car and driver.
Maybe I know maths better?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
Kajto:
145 / 6 = 24,16 points per start
or, if you want to calculate all points (not using the 6-best-results rule):
151 / 7 = 21,57 points per start
Bouffier:
84 / 4 = 21 points per start
Summing-up:
24,16 > 21
The table on ERC website is wrong (Liepaja is missing - even when Kajto retired for very understandable reason).Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarek Z
Anyway playing with tenths of points is completely pointnless. Just admit that saying that Kajto proved himself many times to be better than Bouffier (Your exact words) has no factional backing. I have also forgot to mention that Kajto had works car...
Bryan Bouffier
1999 FFSA Rallye Jeunes winner
2002 Volant Peugeot winner
2007/08/09 3x Polish Champion
2010 French Champion
2011 Rallye Monte-Carlo winner
2014 Rallye Monte-Carlo 2nd in privateer Ford Fiesta RS WRC (winner Ogier, Ford not the strongest car)
It's about the money, not the results. If Kajetanowic wants to drive WRC, he have to buy it or rent it for some events.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarek Z
And he can do it with M-Sport whether they have two or three factory cars entered.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex009
I don't know what you mean. I see all results in my browser and Liepaja is not missing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
Yes, impressive. But why did you forget to list Kajto's titles for comparison?Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre Oliveira
2008 Polish Rally Champion in group N
2010 Polish Rally Champion in group N
2010 Polish Rally Champion
2011 Polish Rally Champion
2012 Polish Rally Champion
2013 Polish Rally Champion
2014 FIA ERC Gravel Master
2015 FIA ERC Gravel Master
2015 FIA ERC Ice Master
2015 European Rally Champion
2016 European Rally Champion
2017 European Rally Champion