Hamilton Stripped of Win - Official

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Originally Posted by Bagwan

Hamilton's move at the chicane didn't come off , and therefore he was advantaged by the fact he didn't have to slow to stay behind the driver ahead .
Kimi asserted his lead into the corner and Lewis backed out , but to the side and off track , whilst Kimi negotiated the next corner .

Lewis had to back out of it to let Kimi by . That's the launch that Lewis got , and it resulted in Kimi having to defend the next corner much closer to the corner than should have been necessary .
Lauda is as capable of coming off half-cocked as anyone here , and maybe more so , as he's expected to come up with the authoritative opinion at the drop of a hat quite often .

Whether or not there was a drafting effect is rather irrelevent , given the lift was just before the braking zone .
Those 6kmph were just a lift before applying the brakes .

Clever move , but they protested , so clever got caught .

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When would it have been correct for Hamilton to pass, then?

(I'm not just asking that of you, by the way.)

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Originally Posted by DexDexter

I think some people are missing the point that Kimi was leading the race and indeed made it to the chicane first, so it was up to Hamilton to 1. overtake Kimi without touching him, or 2. give up the corner so that they wouldn't crash. Kimi was in a position to put the car into the chicane anyway he chose (as the race leader), as he did in order to prevent Hamilton overtaking. If people can cut corners and use asphalt not included in the racetrack to get out of situations they themselves brought up and put themselves into a good situation for the next one, well then we are looking at a totally new ballgame. As Kimi commented on Finnish television, if there had been a wall instead of a shortcut, Hamilton would not have come through at all.

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yes he would have hit the wall but then no-one would overtake into there if there was a wall and racing would not happen instead its been banned.

I have to admit that I am usually a Ferrari fan (but not a fanatic - my world won't end if LH wins the WDC!) Having said that, I would call the decision questionable, but I'm not willing to crucify anyone or jump on the conspiracy bandwagon until I hear the reasons that the stewards based their decisions on. They may have seen something that I didn't or, since they are human, perhaps it was just a "blown call." I'll wait to find out.

p.s. Can we add a "Not Sure Yet" to the poll?

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Originally Posted by Bagwan

Lauda is as capable of coming off half-cocked as anyone here , and maybe more so , as he's expected to come up with the authoritative opinion at the drop of a hat quite often .

Whether or not there was a drafting effect is rather irrelevent , given the lift was just before the braking zone .
Those 6kmph were just a lift before applying the brakes .

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when lauda says there was no slipstreaming and that it was the worst call in F1 history, i'd lend him more credibility than i'd lend you.

well, unless you tell me how many F1 world championships you've won. In a ferrari.

the lift was just before the braking zone? what did you watch?

the lift was while he was on the escape road and just after he returned to the track proper.

or, in your world, do people brake at the start-finish line to negotiate La Source?

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Originally Posted by dwf1

yes he would have hit the wall but then no-one would overtake into there if there was a wall and racing would not happen instead its been banned.

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So it's ok to use asphalt outside the circuit to your own advantage after an over-ambitious overtaking manouvre? Cutting the main chicane after the start/finish straight in Monza to overtake a car, then let the car just back ahead and slipstream it into the next corner is ok next weekend?

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Originally Posted by DexDexter

So it's ok to use asphalt outside the circuit to your own advantage after an over-ambitious overtaking manouvre? Cutting the main chicane after the start/finish straight in Monza to overtake a car, then let the car just back ahead and slipstream it into the next corner is ok next weekend?

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It wasn't an overambitious overtaking move, because Räikkönen braked so early that Hamilton had not other option than to take alongside him. Secondly he stayed on the circuit, with overambitious move he should have flown off.

You mentioned Monza. Well, I'm not sure, but I think it has been done several times in the past that after cutting the first chicane rival driver will be passed in the next chicane? Or not? Chicane shortcuts are quite normal there especially on the opening laps. Don't remember anyone getting penalized though.

Talking about walls. Well, if they existed, then indeed we would see serious lack of overtaking, because drivers don't dare to risk, when they have so little room for mistakes. Valencia in theory should have enabled overtaking opportunities, but we didn't see many (actually we saw just one proper pass).

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

When would it have been correct for Hamilton to pass, then?

(I'm not just asking that of you, by the way.)

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It's alright to ask , no offense .

Had Lewis let Kimi by earlier on the straight , he might have had a chance to defend . As it was the move at the chicane had a direct effect on the pass at La Source .

He should , therefore , have waited to get him , which he would , on the hill after Eau Rouge .

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Originally Posted by DexDexter

So it's ok to use asphalt outside the circuit to your own advantage after an over-ambitious overtaking manouvre? Cutting the main chicane after the start/finish straight in Monza to overtake a car, then let the car just back ahead and slipstream it into the next corner is ok next weekend?

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No but we're not on about monza. They are differnet chicanes. Also at monza you wouldn't have chance to do that as you have to slow down too much. Everyone going on about slip stream. You come out of that chicane at 80mph MAX! The air is pushing the car down too much to cause enough of a slip stream for that. If it would have been able to, then ANY car should close up out of a corner which they don't. Also cars would slip stream and close up to each other in the pit lane which they don't so FORGET THIS SLIP STREAM RUBBISH!!

One more post.
"Conspiracy" has been a keyword at times. And the question, whether it exists, persists.

What we have to keep in mind is that stewards, FIA, and actually all the people involved in F1 are not emotionless robots, but are normal human beings like all of us. All of them have their own preferences, opinions, also sympathies and antipathies. It's in human nature. I don't know, what was the mood of the decisionmakers or what were they thinking, when they decided on this penalty at that particular moment, but hopefully the appeal will clarify this.

I'm a bit afraid though that the appeal will take place one race before the end of the season and the result of the appeal will turn out to be such, which will be more beneficial for the championship excitement...

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Originally Posted by Mickey T

when lauda says there was no slipstreaming and that it was the worst call in F1 history, i'd lend him more credibility than i'd lend you.

well, unless you tell me how many F1 world championships you've won. In a ferrari.

the lift was just before the braking zone? what did you watch?

the lift was while he was on the escape road and just after he returned to the track proper.

or, in your world, do people brake at the start-finish line to negotiate La Source?

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That's fine , Mickey T .
The lift was indeed after he came back on , past the start/finish line , when Lewis sat in kimi's air just long enough to catch a bit of tow .
The stewards see it as him being closer than he would have been , and certainly , your highness , you can see that the idea that he was farther advanced , earlier on the pit straight sits well with that view .

Indeed , arguing that Lewis lifted earlier on the straight doesn't fit with Lewis not being advantaged .

But , I feel he would have been seen to have been less so , had he lifted earlier to let Kimi by .
In my view , it was either that , or wait for the hill .