Sordo was only a waterboy to Seb...Quote:
Originally Posted by N.O.T
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Sordo was only a waterboy to Seb...Quote:
Originally Posted by N.O.T
but still in the team long before Ogier arrived.Quote:
Originally Posted by onemanband
Funny that you mentioned Sordo.Sordo got a C2 and factory backing thanks to Carlos Sainz, who was driving for Citroen at the time and still has very good relationship with the Frenchs...
Excuse me. Did Tommi really say that? I guess it´s forum member driving NOT crazy only. Right?Quote:
Originally Posted by DonJippo
Yes, but even in the Loeb era the Citroen was pretty much as French as Toyota is Finnish today.Quote:
Originally Posted by N.O.T
I think the reason for the 100% Finnish line up for Toyota is simple - the best available drivers at the time for them were Finnish. When they hired Hänninen there was basically nobody else and even after last year, Latvala is still a better driver than Mikkelsen, as he has already proved this year. Or you think Toyota would have a podium and a win without Latvala? And if you look at young guys who are ready(ish) for WRC, 2/3 of them are Finnish.
Well the cross section of 32 vs 33 is certainly affected (33² * pi /4 is a bit bigger than 32² * pi /4).Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
Their results were a fluke, in Monte latvala would be 8th and below under normal conditions, and in sweden he would be 3rd and below because he knows sweden.Quote:
Originally Posted by onemanband
The only reason they have assembled this team was because of managers and nationality.
Do not get upset kids... the season has just begun, we will see who is who in the next 2-3 events.
Anyone else think we should be glad Hyundai (seemingly) had no interest in signing Ogier?
I think if Ogier was in that car he would have 2 wins under his belt already and we could be looking at another VW situation with the best driver in (again seemingly) the best car with a strong supporting cast for the manufacturers championship.
Thankfully what we have instead is 4 teams truly fighting for honours this year!
Sweden is not as much of a specialist event as you think, specially this year when road surface was consistent and there were no snowbanks... And Latvala with a Toyota gave Thierry Neuville with a very good Hyundai a hell of a fight on day one from 2nd on the road... Even if he is Finnish and knows the Swedish road, don't you think he was the best driver available for Toyota after what he has already achieved?Quote:
Originally Posted by N.O.T
And the Toyota Yaris after 2 events is the most reliable car in the series.
I'd argue that we got the normal conditions at this year's Monte? A bit of everything.Quote:
Originally Posted by N.O.T
...and it is exactly because of the ability to handle these changing demands that the RMC winner usually ends up as WDC for that year.Quote:
Originally Posted by Simmi
Could it just be that Toyota is not that bad as some of us thought they would be and neither the new VW as someone other are saying now after two very special event?
I know but it doesn't seem to be that different to me, some 6 percent.Quote:
Originally Posted by itix
He might be better, or might not, during the whole 2016 season in same car he certainly wasn't.Quote:
Originally Posted by onemanband
However, how has he proved it this year already? Was Mikkelsen driving a WRC car on Monte and in Sweden?
#logic
It could be everything. No matter how obvious some things are, there is so much more hidden and unknown for most of us here.Quote:
Originally Posted by AL14
It is very basic approach to draw conclusions based on stats, incidents, conditions, driver mistakes, flukes, and so on.
In terms of TGR, the only credible way for predicting the future, is the history of Toyota, and the success of the people involved in this project.
what weird conditions where there in sweden then?Quote:
Originally Posted by N.O.T
he has beaten ogier and tanak solely on speed. i know that realizing that must be very painful to you, but covering your ears and yelling "i can't hear you" isn't going to change reality.
and this was ogier's 8th rally sweden, compared to latvala's 11th. so i suspect they both know the roads by now.
Tanak had gearbox problems early. And he was outclassed by neuville by almost a minute and neuville is nothing in sweden.Quote:
Originally Posted by denkimi
too complicated for you ?
Citroen looks a lumpy car if you compare it to the others. Maybe the DS3 was the better base car to build a 2017 spec WRC
The DS3 is essentially a C3Quote:
Originally Posted by AdvEvo
So now Neuville is nothing (in Sweden)? Hold your horses son!Quote:
Originally Posted by N.O.T
we are comparing cars/teams here... if a guy who never achieved anything speedwise in sweden is 1 minute ahead of a previous winner and always a contender for the win shows how much the difference is between a professional manufacturer team and an assortment of amateur villagers who got a fluke result just thanks to latvalas ability in sweden and fords coward decision to go for the points. during Day2 where all was pushing Latvala was slower than everybody and without the cancelled stage the situation could be much different going into day 3...Quote:
Originally Posted by Rallyper
but as i said you just scrap the surface. You have a month to enjoy your naked kings garment... then we can see who is who.
you really need to stay away from whatever drugs you're on. those hallucinations might be giving us all a laugh on the forum, but in real life they can get you killed.Quote:
Originally Posted by N.O.T
Neuville is nothing despite nearly winning the 2015 event with a sequential gearbox...Arranging accommodation at Dromokaiteio for NOT....
Meeke is mostly to blame for he lost the chance to prepare as he crashed in his PET, and Citroen never had a great car in Sweden anyway. Not a big deal, it's the only rally in the season with that surface and these tyres.Quote:
Originally Posted by er88
see how he went to nearly win it.... or back to farming.Quote:
Originally Posted by macebig
We all should be happy that Ogier didn´t choose Toyota, he is better driver than JML...
Ever heard about this little thing called road order? Maybe you should google it and read what effect it has in rallying.Quote:
Originally Posted by N.O.T
And you are also saying that Ogier and Tänak making mistakes trying to catch/match Latvala was a coward decision by ford?
I think i misphrased my thought a little bit wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by mknight
What i meant to say was that Mikkelsen was better than Latvala last year because Latvala had a slump, not because Mikkelsen improved that much (although he did improve). Now that Latvala is back on form it would be a far stretch suggesting that Mikkelsen could have achieved what he has.
Why was Ogier so slow in Sweden? He had 2 PETs but still didn't manage to win a single stage. Was it only lack of experience in the car or is there more behind it?
I don't think he was so slow.Ok he was slower than his standards but his pace on Saturday was equal to Neuville.On Friday, he was disadvantaged by road position and on Sunday he made a mistake on the 1st corner, so he didn't have a lot to risk.Quote:
Originally Posted by smsgrafica
Neuville had better pass from this point imhoQuote:
Originally Posted by SlowSon
Quote:
Originally Posted by onemanband
Mikkelsen was 2nd on Monte last year and has lost Sweden win in last stage 2 years ago.
How is it a far stretch to suggest he could achieve the same results as Latvala did this year?
(EDITED for simplicity)
C'mon, Ogier has won Sweden 3 times and had nearly same road position as Tanak with the same car. Still, he didn't win any stages, with Tanak going from one best time to another. I don't think Tanak is better than Ogier overall, even more so in Sweden. So, where lies the problem? Is it just that the Fiesta was molded around Tanak and Ogier still hasn't figured out how to extract the best out of it? Is he driving safe to collect as many points as possible until he's more confortable? The last point is in contrast with his many mistakes in Monte as well as in Sweden. So, what is it?
Neither of Latvala's performances were flukes. Rallying isn't a race where everyone needs to finish, otherwise the results are scrapped. If a driver makes a mistake and the people below benefit, those below deserve what they get.
Latvala managed MC perfectly, knowing when to push and when to back off. In Sweden, he dealt with the pressure from Tanak, got in the zone, and beat everyone at their own game under the same circumstances.
If you're so keen on flukes, Burns' and Solberg's WDCs were purely lucky then.
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There's no denying that when looking at numbers Mikkelsen was far superior to Latvala last year. His massive slump really brought him down. What also has no denying is that Latvala has historically been better, and when he can focus like he did on day 3, he's as good as Ogier, or better.Quote:
Originally Posted by mknight
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I compared them not only for last year, because as i said, Latvala had a slump in performance and confidence. Comparing them to each other and Ogier, using him as a benchmark, from all 3 years, kind of proves my point.Quote:
Originally Posted by mknight
Pretty much what I meant was that nothing what we have ever seen from Mikkelsen compares to an on form Latvala, what he undoubtably is at the moment.
From this video many would say that this car is slow...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6Q2YJJQEZ8
but we know the results.
imho these are the reasons.Ogier have matured,and if he is not 100% happy with the car,will not push at his limits.He will go for the points having the big picture in his mind(championship)Quote:
Originally Posted by smsgrafica
I said the same yesterday in my sum up for Sweden.
Ogier just didn't have speed and he himself admitted it at the end of vargasen 2 . Looked very frustrated actually
Still missed to get our first victory @RallySweden , but we keep pushing! 👊 https://t.co/bOFo6kmDKY