Wrc Rally Argentina 2013

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Originally Posted by Francis44

No, I compare how easily Ogier was able to keep up and with Loeb in Finland and Sweden 2011 in the first full year of manufacteur team and how difficult it was for Loeb to be competitive in those same rally's back when we started.

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why you choose only the rallies Ogier had a good result? Compare the whole chpampionship/year
its very easy for me to compare rallies where Ogier was 3 minutes back,and is not that hard to find one.

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Originally Posted by dimviii

why you choose only the rallies Ogier had a good result? Compare the whole chpampionship/year
its very easy for me to compare rallies where Ogier was 3 minutes back,and is not that hard to find one.

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I see your point, I just choose those one's because of how specialized and difficult they are.

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Originally Posted by makinen_fan

Ogier is in his 4th full WRC season (or 5th if you count last year). Loeb won the championship in his 2nd full season, and probably lost it on his 1st attempt due to the well-known team orders in Rally GB 2003...

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I was comparing mostly to the 2011 season.

What a looser this guy Loeb is, he only won two stages in this rally sofar, normally he should be far behind Ogier..... :D

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Originally Posted by makinen_fan

Ogier is in his 4th full WRC season (or 5th if you count last year). Loeb won the championship in his 2nd full season, and probably lost it on his 1st attempt due to the well-known team orders in Rally GB 2003...

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Could you remind me about the team orders in 2003? I was probably too young back then. :) So he lost the championship due to team orders in Rally GB, in favor of a Subaru driver? :)

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Originally Posted by dimviii

really? you compare Gronholm,Mc Rae,Sainz with Novikov,Neuville,Sordo,Latvala?

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You forget Ostberg... Anyway the "lack" of very top-drivers is not Ogier his fault (but of course that doesn't make him a better or worse driver either)... It's most likely because there haven't been enough chances (only 2 proper manufacturers the last 4 years before VW). I'm quite sure that, in 3-4 years, things will be different. Also Novikov, Neuville and Ostberg still have potential to grow (unlike what I think about Sordo, Latvala and Hirvonen).

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Originally Posted by tommeke_B

Could you remind me about the team orders in 2003? I was probably too young back then. :) So he lost the championship due to team orders in Rally GB, in favor of a Subaru driver? :)

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I think makinen_fan is refering to Citroën asking Loeb to hold back on Rally GB 2003 to secure the Manufacturers' title and not focus on the drivers' title.

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Originally Posted by dimviii

no didn t said Loeb is always better

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but you never said somebody else was better than him anywhere, which is the same

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Originally Posted by dimviii

at same corner Latvala haven t got this handbrake problem,but its not Ogiers fault.

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yes because latvala was slower there and everywhere else. lower speed = no problems with staying on neat trajectory

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Originally Posted by miniwintz

Novikov reportedly in "road mode" during the special stage, anyone know what this means? He seemed pissed despite his very good time.

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I think "road mode" is when the engine uses the map for liason sections

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Originally Posted by Francis44

Ofcourse, I expect a driver like Loeb with some many years of this championship to still have a little more to give than Ogier. What some of you fail to see is that Ogier is much better than Loeb was when they were at the same phase of their career :) .

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Why don't you make a comparison between Stig Blomqvist and Sébastien Ogier? It's more extreme but maybe it will make you understand, that comparing two drivers from a different era is wrong. And yes, Loeb and Ogier are from a different era.

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Originally Posted by tommeke_B

Could you remind me about the team orders in 2003? I was probably too young back then. :) So he lost the championship due to team orders in Rally GB, in favor of a Subaru driver? :)

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Let's put in other words, he was refused the chance to fight for it. Whoever won that rally was the champion (PS or SL)

Nice fights are coming.

Latvala vs Novikov
Mikkelsen vs Sordo vs Prokop