People Power

This is all getting a bit tiresome. I guess that I should just give in to all your arguments. Let's let government take care of us. We'll make it their responsibility to give us jobs, healthcare, food, clothing, homes, and everything else we may need or want. Personal responsibility be damned. Personal freedom be damned.

I hear the cries now "what about the middle ground"? Well we passed the middle ground long ago. It started with FDR taking care of our retirements for us at the point of his gun. It continued under LBJ with him taking care of our "poor" at the point of his gun. Obama is taking the next step, taking care of our healthcare at the point of his gun.

Where does it end?

When do we get to this magical "middle ground"?

When have you taken enough of my money? My liberties? My freedom? How much is enough for you who are so blinded by petty jealousy?

Logic and running the statment through my head, says your version is correct, and what I wrote near logically impssible; therefoe I changed it.

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Originally Posted by chuck34

This is all getting a bit tiresome. I guess that I should just give in to all your arguments. Let's let government take care of us. We'll make it their responsibility to give us jobs, healthcare, food, clothing, homes, and everything else we may need or want. Personal responsibility be damned. Personal freedom be damned.

I hear the cries now "what about the middle ground"? Well we passed the middle ground long ago. It started with FDR taking care of our retirements for us at the point of his gun. It continued under LBJ with him taking care of our "poor" at the point of his gun. Obama is taking the next step, taking care of our healthcare at the point of his gun.

Where does it end?

When do we get to this magical "middle ground"?

When have you taken enough of my money? My liberties? My freedom? How much is enough for you who are so blinded by petty jealousy?

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Remember a few posts back when I said their rhetoric is the equivalent of a child saying-" Yeah but what if-what if-what if-what if---?
The political base you are debating have the biased notion that Conservatives are of one narrow scope belief that fits only THEIR idea of what a conservative is.
If you do not fit in that biased idea they will just use the vacuous response of if you are a conservative how can you say x, or not believe Y, or not....

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Originally Posted by Bob Riebe

Based on what as compared to what.
Be specific.

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Just look around you . . . .
oh wait! I know how you view the world, you continue to expressed yourself rather eloquently and as I said before, we both view the world situation in a total different way and as I also said before, to each his own.

But I will oblige and give you again my personal point of view:

Look around you again.

Some 21,000 children die every day around the world.
Today, around 21,000 children died around the world

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The silent killers are poverty, hunger, easily preventable diseases and illnesses, and other related causes. Despite the scale of this daily/ongoing catastrophe, it rarely manages to achieve, much less sustain, prime-time, headline coverage.
According to World Food Program (WFP) report, there are 925 million people who are starving in the world today, meaning that one in seven people do not eat enough food to be healthy and live a normal life (Hunger)

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Hunger and Poverty Around the World | Global Social Problems

I could go on but I want to avoid a discussion on who's "web statistic link" is the correct one.

But I do know this:
I believe in a future of tranquillity and peaceful endeavor as the inevitable result of sharing and justice for all, the creation of a world where no man lacks, where the Joy of Brotherhood manifests through all men.

freaking you out? too "hippy" for you?
Let me continue:

This is the future hoped for by the majority of men, but not by all. Many do not recognize that sharing is divine, that justice and right relationship are divine, but who see Divinity as competition and conflict, and register a man’s worth by the weight of his gold.
Many are fearful and suffering; bereft of work and hope for the future, they struggle from day to day. But many others are making their future for themselves, and many, too, are dying in the process. Throughout the world men are awakening to the possibility of a better life with freedom and justice at its heart.

I'm one of those.

:s mokin:

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Originally Posted by chuck34

This is all getting a bit tiresome. I guess that I should just give in to all your arguments. Let's let government take care of us. We'll make it their responsibility to give us jobs, healthcare, food, clothing, homes, and everything else we may need or want. Personal responsibility be damned. Personal freedom be damned.

I hear the cries now "what about the middle ground"? Well we passed the middle ground long ago. It started with FDR taking care of our retirements for us at the point of his gun. It continued under LBJ with him taking care of our "poor" at the point of his gun. Obama is taking the next step, taking care of our healthcare at the point of his gun.

Where does it end?

When do we get to this magical "middle ground"?

When have you taken enough of my money? My liberties? My freedom? How much is enough for you who are so blinded by petty jealousy?

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Your most nonsensical post here thus far. You're more intelligent than this sort of, with respect, over-emotional claptrap. What is it that right-wing Americans find so frightening about finding a reasonable middle ground? Why must you always view things from an extreme?

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Originally Posted by Bob Riebe

Person the the political base you are debating have the biased notion that Conservatives are of one narrow scope belief that fits only THEIR idea of what a conservative is.
If you do not fit in that biased idea they will just use the vacuous response of if you are a conservative tghen how can you say x, or not believe Y, or not....

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You, Bob, fit exactly one of the stereotypes many of us Europeans have about Americans of your political persuasion. I'm genuinely not saying that as a cheap insult.

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Originally Posted by chuck34

This is all getting a bit tiresome. I guess that I should just give in to all your arguments. Let's let government take care of us. We'll make it their responsibility to give us jobs, healthcare, food, clothing, homes, and everything else we may need or want. Personal responsibility be damned. Personal freedom be damned.

I hear the cries now "what about the middle ground"? Well we passed the middle ground long ago. It started with FDR taking care of our retirements for us at the point of his gun. It continued under LBJ with him taking care of our "poor" at the point of his gun. Obama is taking the next step, taking care of our healthcare at the point of his gun.

Where does it end?

When do we get to this magical "middle ground"?

When have you taken enough of my money? My liberties? My freedom? How much is enough for you who are so blinded by petty jealousy?

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I can understand your adherence to free market principles but I do find it odd that you can't address its deficiencies.

Whilst you oppose bailouts by principle I ask you again what the alternative would have been in 2008.

Why don't you describe what you think would have happened if Wall Street banks were all allowed to collapse, as well as mass employers like GM cars? Where would we be now 3 years later?

All principles have weaknesses and deficiencies whether one agrees with them or not. Those who truly understand things are able to face up to that.

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

Your most nonsensical post here thus far. You're more intelligent than this sort of, with respect, over-emotional claptrap. What is it that right-wing Americans find so frightening about finding a reasonable middle ground? Why must you always view things from an extreme?

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So i ask again, where is the middle ground? How much of my money must you steal to make you feel better? Honestly, that is what this debate boils down to. Some feel that othere have more than them, so they want someone to take it and distribute it out more "fairly". So i'll ask again, how much of my money will make you feel better?

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Originally Posted by Malbec

Whilst you oppose bailouts by principle I ask you again what the alternative would have been in 2008.

Why don't you describe what you think would have happened if Wall Street banks were all allowed to collapse, as well as mass employers like GM cars? Where would we be now 3 years later?

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Again, in the counter-argument from the free-marketeers, one sees a degree of naivety coming across — the notion that a wave of entrepreneurship would have swept the nation and made good all the losses is charming but fanciful.

I should add, perhaps, that my attitude to bail-outs is that some might be justifiable in the wider interests of the economy. I don't believe that every failed business should be rescued by the state. (Nor do I think many of those protesting at present — if they haven't been chucked out by the authorities — would believe that either, not that nuanced opinions seem very popular nowadays.)

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Originally Posted by Malbec

All principles have weaknesses and deficiencies whether one agrees with them or not. Those who truly understand things are able to face up to that.

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Instead, what we see here over and over again is an almost slavish respect for the free market as it stands. Talk about putting one's head in the sand.

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Originally Posted by chuck34

So i ask again, where is the middle ground? How much of my money must you steal to make you feel better? Honestly, that is what this debate boils down to. Some feel that othere have more than them, so they want someone to take it and distribute it out more "fairly". So i'll ask again, how much of my money will make you feel better?

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Chuck, you too are becoming a caricature of a modern-day neo-con.