Team orders at Ferrari

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27th July 2010, 00:38
wedge

Quote:

Originally Posted by ioan

YOu see I gave up in believing that Ferrari are always right and now I think that individuals have their rights too not only the teams and their financial backers, I don't give a rat's arse about who's got the money and who doesn't.

In 2007 and 2008 the drivers were only asked to make way when they didn't have a mathematical chance to win the title and as such they felt it was the right thing to do. Yesterday this wasn't the case.

I don't remember Smedley making such a fuss about it back in 2007 either, I wonder why?!

What about 2006 US GP?

Massa was leading the first stint and let Schumi through after the first round of stops. Massa was quite happy to do it because the change of positions was unbrazen. There were little complaints IIRC
27th July 2010, 00:38
Saint Devote

Quote:

Originally Posted by henners88

Maybe not officially but the crowd backlash and the public condemnation of the incident certainly helped the FIA come to their decision. Afterall it was the incident which lead to team orders being banned, and Ruben's swapping places with Michael, which effectively was two drivers changing which step they stood on was hardly an offence worthy of a $1m fine. A precedent was set and the regs were changed to what is deemed unacceptable in the sport today... :)

And the FIA reacted in a kneejerk fashion based on emotionalism. The rule has no place in mortor racing and Ferrari are morally correct and have history of motor racing on their side.

It is not the responsibility of Ferrari to pander to the whimsical notions of modernity - questionable in every sphere as far as morality and values are concerned - in order to appease the silly sensitivities of so-called "fans".

Simply because one refuses to recognize Copernicus does not make the belief that Ptolemy is correct, true - unfortunately too many people believe that what one "feels" is right as opposed to what is objectively proper and true.

Supported by Michael Schumacher and Niki Lauda today, Luca De Montezemolo is a strong leader and Enzo Ferrari would have done the same - only more blatantly. He would have told the FIA and those fans who are so self-righteously bleating on about this affair in which they have absolutely no concrete or valid stake, to simply: well y'all know the rest!
27th July 2010, 00:46
Saint Devote

And I have said this before - simply because a rule or regulation exists, it does not mean it is just and that it ought to be adhered to.
27th July 2010, 00:51
Saint Devote

Quote:

Originally Posted by N. Jones

If Alonso was faster than Massa he should have overtaken him. Instead he whined and look what has happened.

Alonso was quicker - Smedley radioed Massa that he had almost 3 seconds over Alonso and that he had to push and keep that lead.

Massa failed and Alonso caught up.

Ferrari saw not only what happened to Red Bull recently but more so that each time Alonso HAS PASSED Massa on track it results in damage - such as the coming-together at Silverstone.

It was a wise and correct decision.

If people don't like this part of f1 then maybe they should watch soemthing else. ALL forms of motor racing employ team orders in one form or another, its always been that way and it is the proper way.
27th July 2010, 01:04
markabilly

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saint Devote

And the FIA reacted in a kneejerk fashion based on emotionalism. The rule has no place in mortor racing and Ferrari are morally correct and have history of motor racing on their side.

It is not the responsibility of Ferrari to pander to the whimsical notions of modernity - questionable in every sphere as far as morality and values are concerned - in order to appease the silly sensitivities of so-called "fans".

Simply because one refuses to recognize Copernicus does not make the belief that Ptolemy is correct, true - unfortunately too many people believe that what one "feels" is right as opposed to what is objectively proper and true.

Supported by Michael Schumacher and Niki Lauda today, Luca De Montezemolo is a strong leader and Enzo Ferrari would have done the same - only more blatantly. He would have told the FIA and those fans who are so self-righteously bleating on about this affair in which they have absolutely no concrete or valid stake, to simply: well y'all know the rest!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saint Devote

And I have said this before - simply because a rule or regulation exists, it does not mean it is just and that it ought to be adhered to.

Like I said, you supporters better change your gears....and so you did......

why stop there??? why not go further with a secret traction control, secret new engine parts and repairs, maybe a secret bottle of some nitro oxide for a little extra HP when you need it......

and with the same logic, RD should have said, "we stole that data from Ferrari, as competition always justifies the means and it was morally right...so screw you and your stupid rules" :eek:

Morally correct???? whimsical notions of modernity - questionable in every sphere as far as morality and values are concerned ?????
objectively proper and right????
rules to be disregarded because they are not just??

:rolleyes:
27th July 2010, 01:11
airshifter

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saint Devote

Alonso was quicker - Smedley radioed Massa that he had almost 3 seconds over Alonso and that he had to push and keep that lead.

Massa failed and Alonso caught up.

Ferrari saw not only what happened to Red Bull recently but more so that each time Alonso HAS PASSED Massa on track it results in damage - such as the coming-together at Silverstone.

It was a wise and correct decision.

If people don't like this part of f1 then maybe they should watch soemthing else. ALL forms of motor racing employ team orders in one form or another, its always been that way and it is the proper way.

Maybe if Alonso can't make a clean pass he should improve his racecraft. Quite a few other drivers manage to do it.

I can agree that team orders will take place, but they shouldn't be so blatant. If it's all about the team they should take away the title of WDC completely. It's not really an individual title when a team forces a driver to be a #2 and support one of the teams drivers.
27th July 2010, 01:15
racefan08

Alonso is such a cry baby. If he had a faster car then his team mate why didn't he try to pass him. Poor Felipe he has to be careful commenting on the situation because Ferrari just renewed his contract. Maybe Felipe needs to go to another team.
27th July 2010, 03:51
Valve Bounce

Quote:

Originally Posted by airshifter

Maybe if Alonso can't make a clean pass he should improve his racecraft. Quite a few other drivers manage to do it.

.

As much as I hate to, I have to agree with the other guy here. Look what happened to Mark Webber when Vettel decided to ram him when he found it difficult to get past.

FORZA FERRARI !!!!
27th July 2010, 04:03
Saint Devote

Quote:

Originally Posted by markabilly

Like I said, you supporters better change your gears....and so you did......

why stop there??? why not go further with a secret traction control, secret new engine parts and repairs, maybe a secret bottle of some nitro oxide for a little extra HP when you need it......

and with the same logic, RD should have said, "we stole that data from Ferrari, as competition always justifies the means and it was morally right...so screw you and your stupid rules" :eek:

Morally correct???? whimsical notions of modernity - questionable in every sphere as far as morality and values are concerned ?????
objectively proper and right????
rules to be disregarded because they are not just??

You make it sound as though we are talking about rules and regulations for concentration camp murders imposed by some evil dictatorship

:rolleyes:

dude, drink some kool aid before you get any dizzier and fall off your high pedestal...hello, it is just motor racing for sport and some prize money....

and oh, yeah, why would any idiot think it worthwhile to "appease the silly sensitivities of so-called "fans". Screw them and the horse they rode in on.....

Watch your flippant words buddy boy - you are addressing an Israeli. We do not close the doors and switch off the lights. We step outside.
27th July 2010, 04:10
Saint Devote

Quote:

Originally Posted by airshifter

Maybe if Alonso can't make a clean pass he should improve his racecraft. Quite a few other drivers manage to do it.

I can agree that team orders will take place, but they shouldn't be so blatant. If it's all about the team they should take away the title of WDC completely. It's not really an individual title when a team forces a driver to be a #2 and support one of the teams drivers.

I prefer that it IS done in the open.

Ferrari have the right to leverage the position of Alonso - there is no way that Massa will win the 2010 title and really win a WDC title EVER. He is the best driver for a number two.

It was his choice to move aside and allow the quicker car through - he could have decided against and fought with Alonso, but the Spaniard would have won anyway.

Massa signed his contract for 2011 and 2012 and decided against trying to prevent the inevitable.

Felipe Massa's actions agree with the decision of Ferrari - and all the sulking and moaning and whatever else, does not change his actions - aka: reality.

Briefly: Massa agreed with Ferrari's actions by his OWN actions.

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