What Happens Next?

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Originally Posted by sanguin

As far as I've heard ,the teams are committed to 2 cars each with some a possiblity of 3.

Dream on !! Paulie G string running 3 cars! You make me laugh ( and cry )

I really don't know what you expect, the owners spelled it out in this interview-

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They sure did. They made it clear that they were short on ideas, short on cash, missread nearly everything in motor racing terms, and KK saying the Europeans love the US way of doing things is true in that the drivers are more visible but the US car drive by and the Harleys were an embarrasment to all those that attended. It was a joke and I could have organised better cars and more with a few calls. KK alosso needs to know that there is big resentment to the US way in Europe care of Iraq and that is not a help. I spent dinner with a marketing guy from the US last Sunday, marketing IT kit and a ChampCar sponsor and he was shocked at the recoil he found from Europeans as soon as they knew he was an American. KK is way out of touch with the realities of the market place. He understand telecoms, has a big ego and is getting this one so wrong. Paulie G -String and he think Europe will be their saviour... I wondered what they thought their strategy was prior to Europe.

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Originally Posted by jjjanos

And I would say not since there the question is whether the track itself intends to hold the event. Hiring the Mexican drivers simply indicates that the series is willing to take actions to satisfy it's portion of the sanction agreement and thus would not be required to return the full sanction fee.
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Link please, we are not privy to the contract for the race. Another rumor from where?

so this is pure speculation. I don't think CC owners should answer this kind of rumor since it has nothing to do with fact.

In the name of Sanguin, what has happened to Mark Cippolini today? His Champ Car 2007 Report Card commentary on the Autoracing1 homepage reads as if it could have been taken straight from this monster thread. Is there a connection? It now appears Mark C. has become surprisingly rational and now sees Champ Car's glass 2/3rds empty like many of us here. Truth has a funny way of outlasting fiction.

I also want to correct what I posted yesterday regarding the things that all major league sports need and have to be successful. I accidentally posted it before I was finished cutting and pasting from sources I had found elsewhere: Here is the complete list:

1) A powerful brand
2) Cultural resonance and relevance
3) Well known stars
4) 3-6 Elite teams
5) A defining national or global event
6) Schedule stability
7) Business credibility
8) Format continuity
9) A target audience
10) Sponsors who activate
11) Media partners who invest
12) A long-term marketing and business strategy
13) Committed capital investors
14) The ability to create leveragable value for all stakeholders
15) A meaningful heritage
16) Defining rivalries
17) A grassroots system to develop participants

Ask yourself how many of these things Champ Car has today and what it is missing from the above list.

Then do the same for the Indy Car Series.

Ditto for ALMS. Grand-Am. NASCAR. NHRA. F1.

IMO, things are so dire for Champ Car that what happens next should solve the problem of what is missing from the above list in the most expedient and efficient way possible.

My point is this: If Champ Car were a real business, the problems above would be approached in a logical and strategic manner. Instead, it appears to be a broken hobby toy or a misplayed opportunistic ploy run entirely by ego and reactive tank slapper changes in a flawed plan born of hubris.

For many here, that perspective is still hard to see or accept since, for them, “The Split” is still a hate-fueled Holy War against King George and the heathens. But, again, as someone else pointed out in this thread, the moral imperative that justified this Holy War mentality was once CART's and for a time, it was Champ Car's battle flag but that has now been lost with the ongoing dilution of the sports identity in pursuit of sanction fees to stay alive. The majority of CART's defining teams, drivers, tracks, and sponsors as well as its venue diversity and heritage have now been lost in the past five years. As others have asked in this thread: What exactly are we still fighting for?

Another person commented that Champ Car doesn't stand for anything any more. I disagree. It now stands for delusional thinking, chronic failure and deceptive leadership. This is so sad given what Champ Car and CART once represented. Think back to just ten short years ago… it would have been very hard to imagine what this has all devolved to today.

Despite Sanguin’s (nearly 300) “all is well” posts on these boards since this thread began on August 30, I now believe that most rational people who visit here now understand that time is just about up for Champ Car. I also think most of us now see that it is finally now time to take what is left of Champ Car and the bulk of what is in the Indy Car Series and make the best of it in 2008 and beyond rather than waiting for Champ Car’s inevitable collapse. History teaches us that any other "plan" is sheer folly.

Perhaps Mark Cippolini's surprising choice to join us on the last train to sanity might serve as a last call to the owners of OWRS who could still yet find success in that special place called Reality.

I love this sport but I am sick and tired of sanctioning body and ownership politics ruining my interest in it and polluting the atmosphere for business. I no longer care who started it or why. I just care about someone having the balls to end this Split. So, I am very sad to say it, but Champ Car has had its shot and it is now officially a dismal DNQ. Merge, purge or put it on the trailer and go home.

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Originally Posted by sanguin

Link please, we are not privy to the contract for the race. Another rumor from where?

so this is pure speculation. I don't think CC owners should answer this kind of rumor since it has nothing to do with fact.

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If there are no contractual obligations to have a minimum of 2 Mexican drivers, then please justify YOUR ASSERTION that the placement of 2 Mexican drivers in rides provides any information or indication that the Mexico City race will take place.

Which is it - the Mexicans are an indication that CCWS is willing to honor the contract or the Mexicans are not an indication that CCWS is willing to honor the contract?

In either event, it does nothing to refute the RUMORS that the Mexican promoter may bail this year.

It is FACT that there is no information available regarding the Mexico City race and it is impossible to purchase tickets for said race, there is a RUMOR that this race is in trouble.

Given the FACT that CCWS has cancelled multiple races this season and these cancellations were RUMORED weeks to months in advance of the cancellation, one would ASSUME that the series would attempt to dispel concerns regarding the Mexico City event.

It has been RUMORED by journalists and the replaced drivers that the hiring was done to satisfy CCWS' contractual obligations. While one could LINK to these assertions, they are not, in fact, PROOF of these contractual obligations.

I called the Champ Car office in Indy today (and spoke to a live body too!! :D ), to ask when they anticipated release of the 2008 schedule. They are projecting December. :eek:

Kinda late in the game to line up prospective sponsors if you ask me IMO.

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Originally Posted by SeanMockery

I called the Champ Car office in Indy today (and spoke to a live body too!! :D ), to ask when they anticipated release of the 2008 schedule. They are projecting December. :eek:

Kinda late in the game to line up prospective sponsors if you ask me IMO.

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Add to the news from CCWS that CDW is gone from Champcar as reported by AR1 green confirm in the rumor page!!! RuSport also rumored to be gone...what do you have to say today Sanguin?

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Originally Posted by seppefan

They sure did. They made it clear that they were short on ideas, short on cash, missread nearly everything in motor racing terms, and KK saying the Europeans love the US way of doing things is true in that the drivers are more visible but the US car drive by and the Harleys were an embarrasment to all those that attended. It was a joke and I could have organised better cars and more with a few calls. KK alosso needs to know that there is big resentment to the US way in Europe care of Iraq and that is not a help. I spent dinner with a marketing guy from the US last Sunday, marketing IT kit and a ChampCar sponsor and he was shocked at the recoil he found from Europeans as soon as they knew he was an American. KK is way out of touch with the realities of the market place. He understand telecoms, has a big ego and is getting this one so wrong. Paulie G -String and he think Europe will be their saviour... I wondered what they thought their strategy was prior to Europe.

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I glad to see someone else here finally has the nerve to say what I've been saying about International expansion and the US image on the world stage lately. Sorry, KK is still blinded by ownership. China? c'mon has anyone seen the Sino/Russian sabre rattling aimed at the US lately? How about all the product scandals lately. There's more than a little specualtion that much of the tainted products coming out of China is less than a coincidence. Paranoia, maybe, but I still lsee little evidence of any kind of chinese advertising for ANYTHING but the local carryout. They produce goods, we buy them marketed by Domestic companies.
Sure people may like American things, but they arent' exactly fond of America or Americans right now. Unpopular wars do that. I find past rumors of expansion to Greece comical if they are going to push the American angle. My cousin is married to a Greek woman and he has to all but put it on mute when visiting family in Greece he gets harassed so much and he is NOT easy to pick out of a crowd as an American by any means.

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Originally Posted by SeanMockery

I called the Champ Car office in Indy today (and spoke to a live body too!! :D ), to ask when they anticipated release of the 2008 schedule. They are projecting December. :eek:

Kinda late in the game to line up prospective sponsors if you ask me IMO.

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Sponsorships have been secured on tentative schedules for decades. What's important are what events are likely to stay and the probability of new ones.

IMO, the firing of drivers Ryan Dalziel and Oriol Servia from PCM and Forsythe (obviously fact, not speculation) was indictative of the chaotic nature of Champ Car this year. A last minute knee-jerk decision to secure short term viability without a long term plan. That's my opinion, but it seems consistent with many things that have in CCWS this year.

Why fire these two drivers just to get Mexican drivers for the last two races (particularly Mexico)? Just to fufill a contract? Dalziel, acording to Robin Miller at SPEEDTV.com, had turned in some very good performances for PCM this year, and this is even more ridiculous with Servia, who has outdriven Paul Tracy throughout most of the year, in a ride that Forsythe said he wasn't even going to have on the track this year.

It seems to me that PCM and Forsythe could have built additional cars for these two drivers, that would have avoided alienating fans of Dalziel and Servia, who were starting to build a small following. Not only, that, it would have increased the car count to at least 19, which is a good thing for the race. Now, I'm the first one to say how easy it is to spend someone else's money to build a car, especially given the tight budgets the teams have.

But...

If Our Good Friend Tony George can finance a large portion of the field to make the magic number of 33 at Indy, The Amigos can get together and spend a few bucks to build two cars to accommodate David Martinez and Mario Dominguez. Give the devil his due, once George either realized the stupidity of his "33 is just a number" remark, or swallowed his pride after hearing the reaction to it, he made damn sure these last few years, where it clearly was touch and go, to have 33 cars start the Indy 500. This is the difference right now between the IRL and Champ Car: the IRL stays on course, in spite of it's CART wanna-be approach, while CC tries to chase the wind. Don't get me wrong, I want as much as anything for CC to right the ship, but it's taking on water, and the Amigos are slow to see it.

Do CC owners think that the Mexican fans are that stupid to not know that Dominguez and Martinez are being use up just because of Mexico event? I'm still waiting for one of the teams to add Lavin on that line-up.