Team orders at Ferrari

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26th July 2010, 22:27
Vivid

Let me guess, you have good arguments apart from your nationalistic nonsense.
26th July 2010, 22:30
truefan72

Quote:

Originally Posted by jerryb

So where does that leave us?

If I were a driver facing such a decision, I would have to decide if I wanted to be the number 2 on a top team or whether I wanted to actually race as hard as I could for a lesser team. You won't win a championship either way but you might have a better feeling about yourself and your career.

Good points and I think massa should know that as long as Alonso is in the team his championship ambitions are over, and/or life will be very difficult and troubling for him and the team with a petulant unhappy Alonso who thinks that it is his god given right to be #1 in a team even if his teammate is just about as good or fast or in the hunt for the WDC. So at that moment massa should have not yielded gone on to get his victory, dealt with the flak and then moved on to another good team next year or even a driver swap this year with a team looking for a solid driver and giving up a willing lap dog in return, Petrov, liuzzi, de la rosa or even hulkenberg (as they can groom him to be their next schumi) seem to come in mind.
26th July 2010, 22:32
woody2goody

Quote:

Originally Posted by truefan72

Good points and I think massa should know that as long as Alonso is in the team his championship ambitions are over, and/or life will be very difficult and troubling for him and the team with a petulant unhappy Alonso who thinks that it is his god given right to be #1 in a team even if his teammate is just about as good or fast or in the hunt for the WDC. So at that moment massa should have not yielded gone on to get his victory, dealt with the flak and then moved on to another good team next year or even a driver swap this year with a team looking for a solid driver and giving up a willing lap dog in return, Petrov, liuzzi, de la rosa or even hulkenberg (as they can groom him to be their next schumi) seem to come in mind.

Massa and Webber should leave their teams and join someone who isn't willing to screw them over in a heartbeat.
26th July 2010, 22:43
Mia 01

somehow I have a little bit better understanding of what happened in MacLaren 2007.
26th July 2010, 23:12
Tumbo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vivid

Really, some comments in here coudn't be more biased. Why don't you just say "ONLY BRITS SHOULD WIN" (or Germans as a second option). It might be a nice summary of what underlies in you comments.

Since when was Massa British or German????? Last I checked the vast majority of the comments in here believe that the moral victor should have been the actual victor and he certainly is NOT European
26th July 2010, 23:33
Hawkmoon

Quote:

Originally Posted by ioan

The real difference beeing that it was the last race of the year and Massa knew he had ZERO chances to win the title, so it was easy to do it.

Yesterday both drivers were in the running for the WDC, Ferrari didn't get any advantage from this move, however they blew Massa away exactly one year after he was 1 inch from death in one of these scarlet cars.
How do you think that he feels about yesterday after being so loyal to these scums for such a long time?

You missed the point ioan. Ferrari broke the rule in 2007 just as they did in 2010 and nobody called for their execution. The point in the season in which it is done is irrelevant. The rule doesn't say "team orders are banned unless one driver is mathematically out of the running". They're banned in all circumstances.

Who are we to judge when the right time to use team orders is? That's up to the teams. Yes it would have been a nice story for Massa to win but Ferrari winning the championship is better.

You may sit back at the end of the season and say "well, Alonso lost the championship by a point but wasn't it nice to see Massa win on the anniversary of his accident?" Ferrari wouldn't think that and nor would their fans. The team did what they believed is necessary to win the title, which is exactly what they should do.
26th July 2010, 23:42
motetarip

I have no issue with a driver allowing their teammate past to further their chances at the WDC but only if that truly is the driver's choice
26th July 2010, 23:57
ioan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vivid

Let me guess, you have good arguments apart from your nationalistic nonsense.

Looks like Gary was right and you have no argument at all.
26th July 2010, 23:58
ioan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vivid

This is really, really funny. So you call "out drive someone", to pass both Vettel and Alonso when Alonso was trying to avoid hitting the wall because Mr. "push-them-out-of-the-track", that is Vettel, was doing just that.
Smart guy, Vettel (sarcasm). And you call out drive someone to continuously block the wheels when Alonso tried to pass in a far more relaxed way?

This is a comedy thread, isn't it?

Yes it's a comedy thread especially after your post.
27th July 2010, 00:03
ioan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hawkmoon

You missed the point ioan. Ferrari broke the rule in 2007 just as they did in 2010 and nobody called for their execution. The point in the season in which it is done is irrelevant. The rule doesn't say "team orders are banned unless one driver is mathematically out of the running". They're banned in all circumstances.

Who are we to judge when the right time to use team orders is? That's up to the teams. Yes it would have been a nice story for Massa to win but Ferrari winning the championship is better.

You may sit back at the end of the season and say "well, Alonso lost the championship by a point but wasn't it nice to see Massa win on the anniversary of his accident?" Ferrari wouldn't think that and nor would their fans. The team did what they believed is necessary to win the title, which is exactly what they should do.

YOu see I gave up in believing that Ferrari are always right and now I think that individuals have their rights too not only the teams and their financial backers, I don't give a rat's arse about who's got the money and who doesn't.

In 2007 and 2008 the drivers were only asked to make way when they didn't have a mathematical chance to win the title and as such they felt it was the right thing to do. Yesterday this wasn't the case.

I don't remember Smedley making such a fuss about it back in 2007 either, I wonder why?!

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