M-Sport Ford World Rally Teams

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3rd November 2022, 05:51
denkimi

2 years ago i saw fourmaux as a potential future top driver, but not anymore.
I don't see crashing often as a problem for a young driver, just look at meeke. But he hasn't shown the speed that would justify his crashes. He hasn't been at the front, yet still crashed everywhere.

Perhaps more time in wrc2 might save him, but i'm sceptical.
3rd November 2022, 06:16
Rallyest

Quote:

Originally Posted by meh

But this is one of the most important questions - the answer should say, how one can come a world champion.

My point of view (so to point out, it's just an opinion and if yours is different, I'm ok if you have different):

Baseline - he always had speed, but he didn't win too many rallies and titles because he also crashed and overdrive a lot.

Crashes and combination with hard to handle attitude he got kicked off. But straight forward "no BS" feedback also has positive side (at least from Mr. Wilson point of view).

Thank's to this baseline he got opportunities to come back more than one time.

This exception (many opportunities) is nowadays a base for hope for everyone who was kicked of - "but look, Tänak came back many times". But did they have the same raw speed as Tänak? And the same technical (mechanic) background - knowledge how cars (should) work?

Now the actual key question - what was changed, before finally come back and start winning rallies. For me, it's mindset. How to handle pressure, how to keep concentrated, what is important and what is not important. If I remember/understood correctly, he has/had separate person in the team for that role.

It was briefly mentioned in his movie also, but his mindset change came alot thanks to His wife Janika.
3rd November 2022, 06:22
AnttiL

Quote:

Originally Posted by meh

But this is one of the most important questions - the answer should say, how one can come a world champion.

My point of view (so to point out, it's just an opinion and if yours is different, I'm ok if you have different):

Baseline - he always had speed, but he didn't win too many rallies and titles because he also crashed and overdrive a lot.

Crashes and combination with hard to handle attitude he got kicked off. But straight forward "no BS" feedback also has positive side (at least from Mr. Wilson point of view).

Thank's to this baseline he got opportunities to come back more than one time.

This exception (many opportunities) is nowadays a base for hope for everyone who was kicked of - "but look, Tänak came back many times". But did they have the same raw speed as Tänak? And the same technical (mechanic) background - knowledge how cars (should) work?

Now the actual key question - what was changed, before finally come back and start winning rallies. For me, it's mindset. How to handle pressure, how to keep concentrated, what is important and what is not important. If I remember/understood correctly, he has/had separate person in the team for that role.

Actually Tänak didn't start winning right after he was kicked out and came back. It took years. He didn't become a win contender until 2017 mid-season. We remember things like Finland 2016 where he was blindingly fast but also crashed out. And even still in 2017, he crashed out leading in Portugal and Poland. Even the first win in Sardegna was a hanging by a thread, he had a small incident on the last day. In Germany he also almost went into the vines, but managed to come out. I have viewed that incident as a moment when he became the driver he is now, he hasn't made many mistakes since then. It's almost like as if he had fallen into the vines, he would have never become a world champion.

But you are correct that he had the top speed already in 2011 and 2012. That's something we haven't seen from guys like Solberg and Fourmaux.

And we can see from other drivers like Meeke or Mikkelsen that being kicked out and coming back doesn't automatically make you a champion.
3rd November 2022, 09:25
mknight

The only driver with similar kind of history as Tanak is Evans, since he was "kicked" from WRC but kept in R5 and put back in WRC with MSport again (Tanak had a year without MSport but then went back to them again).
Evans is imo a rather successful story. (2 times almost champion is success in my book)

No other recent example is comparable, Lappi (2020) and Mikkelsen (2017) lost drives when their team left (that applies also to Lappi at MSport since he was there on Citroen money) then went to completely different teams. For both of them it also wasn't during "early development" period since both had 1 or more wins and multiple podiums by then.
Meeke got kicked by Mini after he already got the IRC title and then also went to completely different team.
3rd November 2022, 09:48
doubled1978

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnttiL

Actually Tänak didn't start winning right after he was kicked out and came back. It took years. He didn't become a win contender until 2017 mid-season. We remember things like Finland 2016 where he was blindingly fast but also crashed out. And even still in 2017, he crashed out leading in Portugal and Poland. Even the first win in Sardegna was a hanging by a thread, he had a small incident on the last day. In Germany he also almost went into the vines, but managed to come out. I have viewed that incident as a moment when he became the driver he is now, he hasn't made many mistakes since then. It's almost like as if he had fallen into the vines, he would have never become a world champion.

But you are correct that he had the top speed already in 2011 and 2012. That's something we haven't seen from guys like Solberg and Fourmaux.

And we can see from other drivers like Meeke or Mikkelsen that being kicked out and coming back doesn't automatically make you a champion.

I agree on Tanak, on such small things careers can change. One thing I have noticed with him since that 2017 season when he made his breakthrough, is that his driving has become much less flamboyant generally (Finland this year might be an exception!) and he really doesn’t make many mistakes while still being very fast.

I’ve said it before, I think Fourmaux has got the ability, if he ever reaches the top will be down to him and perhaps a stroke of luck. Of course the mistakes have to stop, but if MSport stick with him, he has a chance. When I watch his onboards, he has a lovely style of driving and I could see in Spain, he was just cruising and taking no risks. The first day must have been his worst nightmare, benched for two rallies and comes back to wet tarmac with loads of dirty cuts. But on the other two days he was good, without pushing.
It’s easy to look at this season and say slow, crashes etc etc…but I have seen enough over the last 40+ years watching WRC to think he is a lot better than we have seen so far.
I’m sure others will disagree.
3rd November 2022, 12:54
er88

I genuinely have a feeling Fourmaux has something. Maybe the evidence and facts suggest otherwise, but I think he can be a success (not sure whether that's champion level, rally winner level or perennial podium challenger). I think he's just had a season from hell, which started promising pace wise. He had a crash in Monte while showing some pace, but even the best crash in Monte. The fear of death was put in him after that crash and the pace and confidence has evaporated, while the accidents have increased.

Surely that reflects at least a bit of poor management from Msport? They picked these drivers knowing they weren't top tier and either inexperienced, or inexperienced at leading a team for a full season (Breen).

Maybe a season in rally2 might help Fourmaux develop and regain his confidence, slightly out of the limelight you get in rally1 (issue is the Fiesta R5 is a bit of a dog now). I certainly wouldn't give up on him though
3rd November 2022, 13:23
PLuto

Quote:

Originally Posted by er88

I genuinely have a feeling Fourmaux has something. Maybe the evidence and facts suggest otherwise, but I think he can be a success (not sure whether that's champion level, rally winner level or perennial podium challenger). I think he's just had a season from hell, which started promising pace wise. He had a crash in Monte while showing some pace, but even the best crash in Monte. The fear of death was put in him after that crash and the pace and confidence has evaporated, while the accidents have increased.

Surely that reflects at least a bit of poor management from Msport? They picked these drivers knowing they weren't top tier and either inexperienced, or inexperienced at leading a team for a full season (Breen).

Maybe a season in rally2 might help Fourmaux develop and regain his confidence, slightly out of the limelight you get in rally1 (issue is the Fiesta R5 is a bit of a dog now). I certainly wouldn't give up on him though

For me Formaux was talented driver, but made a lot of bad steps in his career which didnt helped in the final. Or better to say - some of his steps he did too early...
4th November 2022, 19:08
jonkka

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnttiL

Safari 2022: fastest drivers didn't complete the stage because the stage was red flagged when Solberg got stuck

And that can be only counted as a fastest stage time but not a stage win.
5th November 2022, 13:59
Sergiow

Quote:

Originally Posted by er88

Maybe a season in rally2 might help Fourmaux develop and regain his confidence, slightly out of the limelight you get in rally1 (issue is the Fiesta R5 is a bit of a dog now). I certainly wouldn't give up on him though

Fourmaux currently testing in Dubai for M-Sport the Ford Ranger T1+ Dakar. Interesting future development both for Fourmaux and M-Sport

https://www.thecheckeredflag.co.uk/2...ent-continues/
11th November 2022, 05:29
mknight

And on Breens 5th crash in 7 rallies we round of the worst season of any driver I remember, even beating Meeke 2019.
(technically 6th crash, but Spain was caused by puncture on corner before).

Greensmiths driveshaft combined with horrid stage time due to bad notes (again after how many years?) rounds it off for rest of the team.

Note that before season we had quite many people tipping Breen for WDC and MSport for manus. They even beat Citroens 2017 season, since Citroen had two wins and podium vs MSport 1+2.

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