It's this sort of arrogance that got you guys in trouble 70 years ago and still does now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rani
Printable View
It's this sort of arrogance that got you guys in trouble 70 years ago and still does now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rani
What a surprise, NOT. They clearly have something to hide:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/10250354.stm
Quote:
Israel 'to reject international ship raid inquiry'
Page last updated at 15:07 GMT, Sunday, 6 June 2010 16:07 UK
Israel will reject a proposed international commission to investigate its deadly raid on a Gaza aid flotilla, its ambassador to the US has said.
Michael Oren told US broadcaster Fox News that Israel has the ability and the right to investigate its own military.
UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon had earlier telephoned Israeli PM Benjamin Netanyahu with the proposal.
Do you have evidence of 'jewish arrogance' causing the Holocaust?Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
I'd love to hear your theory.
I'm not being cynical.
Tell me why did Hitler more or less single out the Jews for what he did? Now I most certainly DO NOT think what he did is right or that there is any excuse. But please do tell me why the Jews and not other groups of people?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rani
I certainly think it was just a means to an end for him and that he just needed a scapegoat to galvanise support for the war effort. Why the jews? Why not those Poles with their excesses of pork consumption? The French with their garlic breath? Brits with their needless weekly roast meals?
There seems to be an attitude amongst Jews that they're special and that the rules that others abide by shouldn't apply to them.
Being successful (which Israel is if I'm honest) is rather a moot point is some terrorist detonates a nuclear weapon in one of your big cities and makes everything glow. Play nice and things will get better, keep on like this and things will get a whole lot worse.
I don't have an answer to your first question. I truly have no idea. However, the rise of nazism came from within german society long before the war. Hence, choosing poles and brits could not be an option, Hitler needed an 'enemy from within' to make a scapegoat out of. I am nit sure about german demographics circa 1930s, but I believe there weren't many minorities in Germany at the time. Jews would have made an easy target since they were relatively doing well. Plus antisemitism is about as old as semitism. Of course Hitler made jews the main enemy but also massacred plenty of other minorities such as Gypsies, Homosexuals, handicapped and people suffering from mental illness or mentally challenged.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
I must say I totally disagree with this. I obviously know a lot of jews and I don't think it's true. Special? well yeah there aren't many of us around. I certainly don't think jews believe they don't need to obey certain rules others abide to because they are jewish. Whenever I've been abroad I always tried to behave as well as I can. I think your statement is very general and not fair. There are rotten apples who don't go by the rules in every group of people and I don't think jews in general are like that.Quote:
There seems to be an attitude amongst Jews that they're special and that the rules that others abide by shouldn't apply to them.
My earlier comments were not out of arrogance, more out of frustration. The amount of lies I've heard on global media is simply astounding. I've heard a jordanian woman who was on deck say commandos threatened to kill a child on the boat if the captain wouldn't change the ship's course. My girlfriend's dad actually knows one of the sailors the IDF sent to guide the ships to Ashdod. I've heard people say how soldiers went on a rampage against defenseless people when the truth is they defended themselves against a mob of true terrorists. This was on turkish newspaper today: http://fotogaleri.hurriyet.com.tr/Ga...id=36575&rid=2
9 people were killed in the fight to get the soldiers who were taken hostage on the belly of the boat yet many on the boat say the soldiers simply opened fire. World media is truly against us every step of the way. The truth just doesn't come out and it really hurts. There is no hunger in gaza. There maybe shortages in fuel and building supplies (every bit of cement passed goes right to Hamas' hands who use it to build bunkers). I also think the blockade would have been lifted had Hamas let Gilad Shalit out or at least let the Red Cross see him. We have a soldier they kidnapped over there who hasn't seen the light of day for 4 years. Meanwhile in Israel Hamas prisoners are given full rights and get to study towards academic degrees. The world loves an underdog and to hell with the truth.
True, Israel has made mistakes. People just don't seem to understand that in this region every move towards peace (retreating from south Lebanon in 2000 and from Gaza in 2005 are prime examples) is seen as a weakness and makes extremist groups likes Hizbuallah and Hamas stronger. The two past wars in the region were direct consequences of Israel returning land back to its enemies. What are we supposed to do?
That you feel leaving Lebanon or Gaza somehow makes things a OK is hilarious and is exactly why Hamas and Hezbollah see fit to rain rocketfire into your country. Saying that leaving Lebanon or Gaza makes it all good is like Hamas or Hezbollah saying that stopping firing rockets makes it all good. You shouldn't be there in the first place and Hamas and Hezbollah shouldn't fire rockets into Israel at all. You're both frigging wrong and you both need to grow up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rani
I think you need to live overseas and see things from an outward point of view. After all I'm sure there were probably members of my family in South Africa who thought Apartheid was just dandy at the time. Whilst of course you need to have people in the area to find out what's happening, sometimes the people with the external viewpoint are the ones best equipped to judge right and wrong.
You misunderstood me. I am not debating the fact whether leaving Gaza or Lebanon is 'ok' or not' just saying that a move that seem to encourage moderation and make things better only brought more bloodshed. That is unquestionable fact. Ever since those withdrawls extremist organizations have only gotten stronger and more well, extreme.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
I agree, but as a person who consumes foreign media on one hand and knows what is really going on on the other I know that a lot of people have no idea what they're talking about.Quote:
sometimes the people with the external viewpoint are the ones best equipped to judge right and wrong
But as someone who lives on the right side of the wall you're bound to feel that way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rani
Also, of course if you leave an area of conflict of course support for the enemy is going to get greater and they're going to launch offensives. Just as if there was a constant hail of rockets coming into Israel, when it stopped your army would be on the move and striking back at whoever was doing it.
Someone needs to be the bigger man and turn the other cheek to a certain extent and I very much doubt that Hezbollah and Hamas are much into cheek turning. But you may find that their support dries up if they keep on trying to attack you and you're not striking back. Hamas talks big and talks of wiping Israel off the map but we all know that aint happening so once Israeli munitions stop falling from the sky, the wall comes down and aid is allowed to freely flow then people will struggle to think of reasons to attack Israel.
Not by much, judging by these figures, or the problem before 2000 was non-existent:Quote:
Originally Posted by Rani
http://www.mfa.gov.il/NR/rdonlyres/8...tacks20007.jpg
When PM Sharon was in power there was a long term where by a policy of restraint took effect. There was a long spell of time when palestinian terrorists would attack and Israel would do nothing. That policy did nothing to quell terrorism in this region and eventually died a natural death.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
Hamas and Hizbuallah are both very religious organizations. This is a religious conflict to them much more than a conflict over land. Just like Al Qaeda attacked NY although they have no claim to the land of the US. As I've said before, judging those organizations' motives and rationale through western standards is simply wrong.
I urge you to read both organizations' charters. Both speak freely about the fact that they will not accept Israel, ever. They will not have peace with Israel, ever. They are willing to have a hudna, a ceasefire in order to regain strength and regroup but never peace. They state this themselves, you can't claim it's Israel delegitimizing them.
Furthermore, both organizations have evolved from militias to legitimate political movements in Gaza and Lebanon. As you know Hamas holds Gaza and was elected democratically, while Hizbuallah holds quite a few seats in Lebanese parliament. Radical, non comprimising, lets-kill-infidels islam is spreading here as it is all around the world.
It was a serious problem before 2000, as it is today. Motivation for terrorist attacks against Israel hasn't lulled, quite the opposite. This graph getting lower tells two things, either we're very lucky or the IDF has learned how to cope with the situation and stop most attacks. I'm pretty sure it's a bit of both.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eki