So, after gear stick and clutch pedal, now the whole gear shifting will disappear. I hate this...
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So, after gear stick and clutch pedal, now the whole gear shifting will disappear. I hate this...
At worst; they leave.
At best; they remain and will commit in 2022 onwards, and take a year out in 2021 to develop the new car. And probably still only arrive in 22 with just two cars, and a car that is flawed again and takes a year and half to sort out...
;)
Right and VW used the same excuse when asked about coming back.... and Skoda used it to explain why they didn't enter under current rules.Quote:
Originally Posted by deephouse
You know in WRX manus also left with "excuses", except the last who left cause there was nobody to fight.
=> It does not matter how "real" the excuse is. Leaving is a fact.
Manus are in WRC for publicity. As L. Jackson there points out, they can use it for brand building even when the car doesn't match anything they have in their range. But if the brand "sport" image is about electric or hybrid cars then it becomes more and more weird.
Btw. I think most people noticed the latest Peugeot concepts:
Electric:
https://www.theverge.com/2018/10/4/1...otor-show-2018
Hybrid with 1.6 turbo:
https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/peugeo...va-with-400bhp
Note that it's all about "perception" of the brand, it's not like VW left cause they did not have money. It was to send a signal (both to the outside and to their shareholders) that they are taking dieselgate seriously.
Time passes, interests change, internal combustion as an only powersource of roadcars will soon be history. Nothing can be done about it sadly.
Can't wait to hear these electric cars roaring through the forests.
how soon ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarmop
In longer term (5-10 years) the alternatives seem to be:Quote:
Originally Posted by RAS007
a) No WRC
b) "hobby" WRC running some cheap/or even old cars without real factory teams (not really RWD Escort, but something like "simplified" R5s). A bit like rallycross before "WRX" started. Note this would also mean limited coverage (not enough ppl to pay for Alllive-like service).
c) Hybrid/Electric with manufacturer money involved
For me c) even with fully electric and no engine noise is much better than the other options. Sure some guys here might prefer b).
Surely full electric or whatever without sound isn't an option. For a variety of reasons.
Noise is part of rallyings spectacle, always has been and always has to be. It's so important for fans. Especially those who attend events.
If we had a monster electric car hurtling through a forest at 100mph +, making no more noise than a fucking washing machine, that's also dangerous.
And I think it is not only about rallysport, but whole motorsport. Without sound you are loosing big part of emotions, which is the reason why you are attending the events.Quote:
Originally Posted by er88
For sure there will be a noiseQuote:
Originally Posted by RAS007
sizzling and stones throwing is not calling a noise...Quote:
Originally Posted by stefanvv
This is true but what percentage of a sports audience are attending in person vs. watching on the tv?Quote:
Originally Posted by PLuto
I don’t think fully electric WRC will happen for some time anyway. F1 style hybrids first maybe.
So people want to go electric because it is clean and green and saves the earth etc. What about the 58 nuclear power stations located in France that are providing the charging power for these save the world electric vehicles all around Europe. Just remind me how clean all this is. Just remind me where France disposes of its nuclear waste, for sure they don't bury it in rural France or beside the Seine River
Actually I like the new compression ignition petrol engine that will be powering the new Mazda 3 and 6 this year as that is a whole new ball game in fuel economy and greenhouse gas emissions.
It has to look green on paper. In reality it is money they need aka car, servicing and repairing it for 10 or so years, then scrapping it and buying a new one.
Can't but help thinking that the WRC is behind the curve; we've seen Hybrids in the WEC since 2012 - and F1 not much after that. There is probably a good reason why; Cost. How many factory teams can afford to run a Hybrid/ Electric car? It's easy to say we'll join/ continue in the WRC when it goes Hybrid/ electric; but how many will actually do so?
Electric cars eco-credentials are more that they dont pollute the cities with carcenegenic NOx and particulates. How the electricity is produced is a different matter.
WRC has been "behind the curve" a few times before already.Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyRAC
- In 1995-2005 almost no road cars used big (2L+) turbo engines. Either naturally aspirated petrol or TDI.
- Then downsizing came with small petrol engines with turbo, but it took WRC a few years to switch to 1.6
- Similarly direct injection came in road cars before WRC.
Don't think cost is the main issue. More legacy + "slow" rule changes.
It's muuuuuch easier to integrate hybrids or electric cars in circuits than in rallying. It's not only about the cost. There is hugely different safety environment, durability requirements etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyRAC
I have visited Poland WRC back in 2014, I am visiting Rally Estonia every year and Rally Finland almost every year. I did spectator recce in Poland and doing it every time at Rally Estonia and Rally Finland and I must admit Rally Estonia roads are far away from Poland roads in every aspect. Surface is one of them definitely. Estonia roads have way more terrain changes - bends, small up and downs, crests, blind corners. However, it is also not Finland of course. So my final conclusion could be - " Rally Poland has something similar to Rally Estonia while Rally Estonia has something similar to Rally Finland" :)Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
You mean something like that? ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by stefanvv
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RYp8tXgSNc
Noise like noise, You know. Whether is something appealing is another matter. There was no antilag noise until mid '90s, but now we can't imagine rally sound without it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarek Z
I have attended number of electric races and I can say one thing - it's utterly BORING.Quote:
Originally Posted by stefanvv
Who said it isn't?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
but we had revy engines,exhaust bangs,turbo/wastegate chatter.Quote:
Originally Posted by stefanvv
That sounds like a symphony.Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
As there is no wheel to wheel racing in rallying, the noise is probably a much bigger part of the spectator experience than in circuit racing.
But many countries are banning internal combusiton engines in the coming decades. What are we going top do? Will manufacturers still want to be involved in the sport using combustion engines? Or will it become more a privateer sport?
Well, you can already see with Fabia R5 how most people find it a boring car to see in comparison to other R5 cars, just because of the sound... So electric cars will be a disaster.
electric cars are dangerous for rallying, apart from boring...
Nobody cares if the arab nobody team leaves... good riddance.
Can't FIA leave the WRC as it is, and make some new championship nobody cares about, like Formula E?
Without those Nuclear Power plants there would be no chances to charge batteries on electric vehicles in normal traffic...Quote:
Originally Posted by Mk2 RS2000
If they leave things as they are manus leave. See WRX.Quote:
Originally Posted by tommeke_B
On the subject of noise, Evo 7-9 make close to no sound as well.
More noise about Canada:Rally Canada urged to be ready for a WRC round within five years
I can't really believe Sweden would be off the calendar as happy as I am that Ottawa is only a day's drive for me. Maybe the WRC should cut Monte Carlo and do the Arctic Lapland Rally if they really want snow.Quote:
Matton told Autosport last month that he favoured two winter rallies on the WRC calendar and a Canadian event is seen as part of that solution.
A mild Rally Sweden put the issue of finding a cold, snow-sure event back on the sport's agenda and an Ottawa-based February rally could be that event.
on a scale from 1 to 10 how hard is every day life for someone with your condition ?Quote:
Originally Posted by mknight
The problem is that the choice is not just to electric or not to electric. If they decide to go to electric, the choices vary between let's plug in a same cheap standard component for everyone to look modern, and let's give everyone freedom to spend ridiculous amounts of money for new solutions to really be modern. The range is very big and every manufacturer wants different. So the result will be a lousy compromise for which no one is happy and everyone will threaten to leave anyway.
I have got feeling that I will end my rally fans days by watching hisoric rally - cars with internal combustion engine...Quote:
Originally Posted by tommeke_B
I've met plenty of people that haven't moved on from the Mk 2 Escort/Quattro/Evo/WRX depending on their age. As for historics people still watch horses race...
I'm one of those You haven't met, but I still watch the WRC. I'm stuck in the historic area though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregor-y
This is an excellent point. FIA has to agree with manus on hybrid or electric rules... and that is insanely painfull process.Quote:
Originally Posted by Googol
Toyota is still pushing mostly hybrids with few electic-only, while some other manus are almost entirely skipping hybrids and going straight into electric.
For hybrids there are like million different solutions, how big/small battery, power of electric motor, how they should be coupled with engine/gearbox, will re-charging of the battery be somewhat restricted.. etc. etc.
Even if they all agree on electric then they have to agree on rules that about power (how can FIA control/restrict it so it's similar - say direct monitoring of current/voltage drain), battery size/weight etc etc.
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Historics are very nice to watch in person and pointless to follow as a "competition".
For those who watch rally from "TV", electronic cars are real option. I can understand that. If you watch in-car video it doesnīt matter what kind of engine car have.
But if you watch it LIVE on stages then ...
Same thing about entries, if you donīt go watching rallies LIVE it doesnīt matter if Rally have only 30 entries but very few would go to foreign country to see 30 cars.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pantealex
or 26..of which 3 are local Evos and a handful of very amateurish little FWD econo-cars.
And that's after years of doing similar...